[RttToEE] Almost a TPK tonight...

[KnowTheToe]

Yep, we underestimated the situation. We were used to how the DM worked and thought we had time. I would call him a bastard, but he will read this. We Love you Tony

We earned this TPK, we were split up across 3 different rooms and we knew the Paladin was on a suicide mission to play a new PC. I was the cleric and was two rounds away from combat. I was listening for signs of our wizard just in case he got into trouble. Our Bard was a round away from the fighters, being between myself and the fighters. Round one, the fighters charge, low on HP and no re-enforcements. As the cleric I had 1 2nd level spell and 3 zero level spells left, but I was buffed to kick some serious tail. I failed a save by one (I needed to roll 5 or better) to become paralyzed. Like flies to RAID we dropped.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re: Re: next time...

Whoah, there! To CDG or not to CDG PCs, now thats a topic for a thread of its own.

IMO the rules are same for the PCs and NPCs in combat. If they try to kill the PCs, then why not do it in the most efficient fashion? .

If.

I stopped the quote at the point which I think is particularly appropriate. Why should they be trying to kill the PC's automatically? It would probably have been more interesting if they had captured them, and there are plenty of reasons why cults in the CRM might want to capture people - interrogation is a key one (although Speak with Dead rather knocks that one on the head for live captures ), sacrifice and other stuff is another, not to mention bargaining chips in the intra-temple politics.

I see too many modules which state xyz attacks and fights to the death, never talks, never takes captives, yada yada yada. Standing Stone by WotC was probably the worst example.

CDG might make sense in the "surrender or we'll top 'im" sense, but as a general thing to do to all invaders?

And heck, as a DM I find that *not* killing the PC's is one of the most difficult things to do! Naturally if they make a really stupid decision they are going to end up dead, but most of the time PC's in my game die because of bad luck (a nasty crit at the wrong time) or an apparent inability to decide to retreat and regroup - problems which it seems afflicted this group too, in this instance

Cheers

 

[Leopold]

CDQ, behead, acid wash, it doesn't matter. without the element of death approaching and the fear that they can die pc's will get comfortable and just shrug off battle damage and say "We can't die, he won't kill us."

I killed 7 PC's last nite out of 12. Damn...i was hoping for a full 100% TPK...oh well they stood when they ought to have run and pulled out the big (read expensive) guns and stuck by it and they were sweating the battle the whole way.

good, way it ought to be..

 

[Azure Trance]

CDQ, behead, acid wash, it doesn't matter. without the element of death approaching and the fear that they can die pc's will get comfortable and just shrug off battle damage and say "We can't die, he won't kill us."

I killed 7 PC's last nite out of 12. Damn...i was hoping for a full 100% TPK...oh well they stood when they ought to have run and pulled out the big (read expensive) guns and stuck by it and they were sweating the battle the whole way.

good, way it ought to be..

They attacked the City of the Glass Pool and confronted the Dukes?

 

[radferth]

I managed a TPK in the moathouse of a (modified) RttToEE. Grell got one, evil wizard (my own modification). My party learned the hard way the answer to the following question:

What is the wrong way to deal with an evil wizard/

a) Run up and kill him.

b) Run away.

c) Stand around and wait for him to summon something.

Fiendish carnivorous apes are nasty if you can't put them down fast enough.

 

[Numion]

Re: Re: Re: Re: next time...

And heck, as a DM I find that *not* killing the PC's is one of the most difficult things to do!

You've probably answered right here why CDG is very viable option.. because it's too difficult to take PCs alive. The PCs had already shown no remorse to the guards they killed earlier, so the reinforcements probably had a clue that they're not ordinary bandits, but a serious threat to be dealt with as efficiently as possible.

After all, they were guards foremost, cultists second. They were there to guard the temple, so that the cult could go on with it's main objective. (And without spoiling anything, the cults main objective is much more important than a few sacrifices.)

Another reason they did the CDG thing might be that they guessed it's adventurers they're dealing with; no point taking prisoners, since it's just an isolated group, and prisoners would just be tried to be freed. Adventurers usually don't have contingency plans that would make taking prisoners more worthwile.

The cultists even had a few clerics, so if they absolutely, positively wanted to interrogate them, they could just speak with dead. The corpse can't just decide to "not to talk", like a live character can.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Re: next time...

or an apparent inability to decide to retreat and regroup - problems which it seems afflicted this group too, in this instance

A withdrawal under fire is well-known as perhaps the most difficult maneuver to carry out in warfare.

 

[Darkness]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: next time...

The cultists even had a few clerics, so if they absolutely, positively wanted to interrogate them, they could just speak with dead. The corpse can't just decide to "not to talk", like a live character can.

Or else cast create undead which is then Commanded.

 

[d12]

yep

I'm running my group through RttToEE right now - we're at level 9. So far, each and every player has suffered at least one character death and the strange thing is that no one seems to mind [previously PC deaths had been rare]. Gotta say I love this mod and my players are having a good time.

 

[David Argall]

cdg and Speak with Dead

"CDG is very viable option.. because it's too difficult to take PCs alive. The PCs had already shown no remorse to the guards they killed earlier, so the reinforcements probably had a clue that they're not ordinary bandits, but a serious threat to be dealt with as efficiently as possible."

But effectively is not CDG in most cases. They are winning, they don't need to. The battle is close, taking time to do so is dangerous. The battle is lost, time to run away, or maybe demand surrender or they will do a CDG [a tactic that should not produce surrender, but might allow less than a complete loss.] A CDG is good tactics only in special cases, the victim is the lost prince whose death ends the revolt, the victim is the only one who knows... Whatever. But attacking adventurers are just attacking adventurers, whose dead are somehow replaced with something of about the same threat due to some mystic law of magic or something. Not worth bothering to kill.


"The cultists even had a few clerics, so if they absolutely, positively wanted to interrogate them, they could just speak with dead."

Check the spell. The dead don't answer at all clearly, and not at all to enemies if they can help it. Much better to interrogate live people. [PCs refusing to talk can be corrected by any of a number of spells, or just by mundane torture.]