• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Rules clarifications

Kzach

Banned
Banned
Sigh. I just love how people pooh-pooh stuff they don't even know about or fully understand.

"This pole sucks!"
"What pole?"
"The one that's going to go into that ditch there!"
"But all it is, is a ditch. There is no pole."
"Yes, but the ditch is obviously inferior so the pole will be too!"
"0.o"
 

log in or register to remove this ad


seskis281

First Post
Kzach said:
Sigh. I just love how people pooh-pooh stuff they don't even know about or fully understand.

"This pole sucks!"
"What pole?"
"The one that's going to go into that ditch there!"
"But all it is, is a ditch. There is no pole."
"Yes, but the ditch is obviously inferior so the pole will be too!"
"0.o"

Heh, I've seen enough glimpses of the pole as its being moved out of the factory to know it's not my cup of tea, but again... it's just a personal preference. The mere fact that we're discussing the "problems" with how lethal the full dragon is against a 1st level party...

One of the things my groups over the years have enjoyed is when we restart a new campaign and their characters once again find a group of sneaky, cross-bow bearing Kobolds a potentitally dangerous challenge lol.

:]
 

Cadfan

First Post
He didn't mention Eyebite's other big advantage. It attacks a different Defense than Eldritch Blast. The versatility that provides would make it worthwhile even if it didn't make you Invisible versus your target.
 

GoLu

First Post
Cadfan said:
He didn't mention Eyebite's other big advantage. It attacks a different Defense than Eldritch Blast. The versatility that provides would make it worthwhile even if it didn't make you Invisible versus your target.

The warlock was pretty thrilled when she suddenly realized exactly that, late in the playtest adventure I ran. And besides that, eyebite's invisibility power was put to good effect, as I managed to get a monster through the front line (which had spread out too much) and into melee with the warlock.
 


Cadfan

First Post
I believe that's been confirmed, actually.

The speculation right now is over whether this particular instance of first level multiclassing is a half-elf only trick, or whether this is how it works for everyone.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Cadfan said:
He didn't mention Eyebite's other big advantage. It attacks a different Defense than Eldritch Blast. The versatility that provides would make it worthwhile even if it didn't make you Invisible versus your target.

Yup. It's the number one rule for 3.5E spellslingers--make sure you have an array of spells to target each saving throw, so you can attack the enemy's weak point.

I do wonder if picking the "right defense" in 4E will be like 3.5E. My approach in 3.5E is to target the Will save for anything that looks dumb; the Fort save for anything that looks fragile and smart; and the Reflex save for anything that looks tough and smart. So, for example, ogre -> Will save, mind flayer -> Fort save, ogre mage -> Reflex save. I find this works pretty reliably.

I must also admit to using some general metagame knowledge about creature types (e.g., outsiders have strong saves across the board and SR into the bargain, dragons have ungodly Fort and Will saves but are weak on Reflex, undead have crap Fort saves but are immune to almost everything that calls for them, et cetera), though I try to avoid using any knowledge of a creature's specific stats.

In 4E, creature type will probably be a much less reliable guide. However, you make the attack roll instead of the monster rolling a saving throw. That means it will be relatively easy to "nail down" a monster's defenses through observation, just as it was usually possible to nail down a monster's AC within a couple of rounds in earlier editions. You have a +5 bonus on a Will attack, you roll a 14 on the first round and hit, roll an 11 on the second round and miss? The monster's Will defense is somewhere between 17 and 19.

So you can probably figure out without too much trouble what the best spell is, and then apply that insight to other such monsters. On the other hand, the existence of 2-4 variants per monster means such insights will not be foolproof...
 
Last edited:

Voss

First Post
Dunno, from the kobolds and other sample monsters, you pretty much need the meta knowledge, because it seems pretty random.
 

Imban

First Post
Yeah, that kinda bugged me when I read over the monster guide - the strong typing of monsters in 3e meant that nailing down what to target - touch AC, Reflex save, Fortitude save, Will save, what have you, was something where you only needed meta-knowledge of how AC and saves were determined in the system, 95% of the time. (*)

In the 4e material I've seen so far, I found the connection a lot less reliable, with only very basic generalizations able to be made - "Don't use Reflex attacks on ninjas", "Don't use Fortitude attacks on burly tanks", "Don't use Will attacks on giant disembodied brains". Heck, I seem to recall a monster from the preview material with a higher Reflex defense than Armor Class, so not even "attacking saves is better than attacking armor class" holds true in all cases.

For a good deal of these monsters, you either need to have read their monster manual entry or otherwise know/determine their defenses by experience, or you might as well just be rolling 1d3 and attack whichever save comes up.

(*) Sure, you occasionally run into things with a +10 The Designer Hates You bonus to Fortitude saves or whatever, but figuring out what to target on a monster was always pretty easy for me and my group.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top