Rules clarifications

[Oldtimer]

Wait, the people who wrote those questions were designers?

Wow. Ok, Sean K. Reynolds is the one who thinks its goofy for the amount of hit points healed to be determined based on the recipient, rather than the caster? (Technically, its not "rather than," its "as well as" the caster, for clerics.) Everyone I know greeted that change with "Oh! Yeah, that makes sense!" Probably because we've all had the late night, mountain dew fueled "how come a level 1 commoner can be patched back together from death's door by Cure Light Wounds, but a level 20 barbarian barely notices it?" conversation. I'm surprised he hasn't.

Some of those comments seem... out of touch.

As one who always enjoys Sean's rants, I find him to be unusually out of touch with reality in these comments.
- Why can't my paladin heal twice in a round when the warlock can minor action attack twice?
- The warlock can't, Sean.
- Why not?
- Because he doesn't have any minor action attacks, Sean.
- Well, that was just an example. What if some other class can attack twice - then it would suck that I can't heal twice...

Sean, meet straw-man. Straw-man, meet Sean.

 

[kennew142]

Part of me wishes I had never read that livejournal entry. I like the rules clarifications and so forth, and I know that we are seeing people play a version of the game that is not finalized and so on, but I found many of the comments coming from former designers to be amazingly uninciteful.

This was my reaction as well. Judging from the tone of the playtest report, it seems to me that these designers had decided that they wouldn't like the game and then set out to prove it. The 'flaws' they found in the game weren't even backed up by the character sheets the playtest characters were printed on.

They constructed a lot of false comparisons. Hmmm. If monsters from one location react in a realistic manner and join the fight in another room, that makes the game play like an MMORPG or a video game. I'm sure Gygax would have been surprised that he was copying video games way back when he wrote all those early 1e modules. I also liked how using cards to keep track of resources makes the game functionally equivalent to a CCG. We had spell cards back in 2e (maybe 1e, I can't remember).

They miscontrued the way the powers worked and then attacked their miscontruction as if it were real. The failure to appreciate how a power that does d6 damage and makes the user invisible is just as good as a power that d10 damage with no added effect would be astounding if it came from random hobos on the street with no gaming experience. From game designers it was ridiculous. I had a similar reaction to the claim that the paladin was a better healer than the cleric. I can only chalk it up to not reading the powers before trying to use them.

Once upon a time, I had respect for some of the folks in question, but no more. It's one thing to not like a game, or a new edition. I've read plenty of well-reasoned posts in these forums that do just that. It's another thing to post random comments that aren't based even on the rules they were supposedly using to playtest the material and call it a playtest report.

 

[Spatula]

Once upon a time, I had respect for some of the folks in question, but no more. It's one thing to not like a game, or a new edition. I've read plenty of well-reasoned posts in these forums that do just that. It's another thing to post random comments that aren't based even on the rules they were supposedly using to playtest the material and call it a playtest report.

Who called it a playtest report? Their comments were based on the rules they had, which are fan-made, and that is acknowledged. Right there in the first line and again at the end.

SKR is off his rocker. I didn't see anything else in the blog post (written by Jediwiker, not sure who that is in real life) nor in the comments, which were all very reasonable and open to Rodney's corrections, that even slightly justifies your repeated use of "they" when you're clearly referring only to SKR's rantiness.

The final verdict? None of us are convinced that we want to play 4th Edition D&D; we need to see more before we can decide.

But it's late, and I need to sleep on this before I can emphatically say I liked it or not.

Some terrible grudge against 4e must lurk in his heart! Burn the witch!!1!

Puh-lease.

 

[hong]

I sometimes wonder whether designers ever consider that their comments on the internet are public and read by their prospective customers, and moderate their tone as a result. I know some do. I'm firmly convinced that Mouseferatu occasionally gets up from his computer, walks around his home and/or office, punches the wall a few times, then sits back down and writes a kind and reasonable response to whatever it is he just read. The gentleness of his internet presence is so unflagging that it simply cannot be the entirety of his personality. He probably screams wordlessly at action figures balanced atop his computer or something. No doubt it terrifies the neighbors.

This is why it's so much better to be paid in ego bucks as opposed to real bucks. All the fun, no responsibility!

 

[Dragonblade]

Jediwiker is JD Wiker. He used to work for WotC and co-wrote the SW d20 RCR. He has done other stuff too but I think most of his work was in the prior SW d20 line.

I agree with the comment that for game designers they seemed remarkably out of touch. When I juxtapose their comments with design comments made by people like Mearls, Noonan, Thompson, etc., the latter seem to have a much better grasp of what makes a good game.

 

[frankthedm]

My big problem with sleep is that it doesn't actually put people to sleep initially. They get to act, and then odds are they aren't affected by the sleep anyway. Anything that relies on the new saving throw mechanic is a pure gamble... in the enemies favor. For a big daily power, thats the last thing I want. Making people unconscious is amazing, tactically. . but not if it usually fails. (And its even worse if they're hobgoblins with a free save attempt or any sort of save bonus). Or if it expires quickly.

And since the CDG just deals max damage and no longer has a chance of killing, the long shot pay out is not even there.

 

[Fobok]

Jediwiker is JD Wiker. He used to work for WotC and co-wrote the SW d20 RCR. He has done other stuff too but I think most of his work was in the prior SW d20 line.

I agree with the comment that for game designers they seemed remarkably out of touch. When I juxtapose their comments with design comments made by people like Mearls, Noonan, Thompson, etc., the latter seem to have a much better grasp of what makes a good game.

I agree too. But then, JD Wiker's game design principals seem to fit a different style of game than 4e.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

the funny thing: if hobgoblins fail their free save, they go to sleep at once

 

[Baka no Hentai]

In 4E, creature type will probably be a much less reliable guide. However, you make the attack roll instead of the monster rolling a saving throw. That means it will be relatively easy to "nail down" a monster's defenses through observation, just as it was usually possible to nail down a monster's AC within a couple of rounds in earlier editions. You have a +5 bonus on a Will attack, you roll a 14 on the first round and hit, roll an 11 on the second round and miss? The monster's Will defense is somewhere between 17 and 19.

I'm also thinking of throwing a bone to players who have a particularly good knowledge check result in my campaigns... instead of a special attack, a warlock might know that this particular breed of kobold is known to be "weak-willed".

Will have to see the full rules before a make a decision on doing that or not, though.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I sometimes wonder whether designers ever consider that their comments on the internet are public and read by their prospective customers, and moderate their tone as a result. I know some do. I'm firmly convinced that Mouseferatu occasionally gets up from his computer, walks around his home and/or office, punches the wall a few times, then sits back down and writes a kind and reasonable response to whatever it is he just read. The gentleness of his internet presence is so unflagging that it simply cannot be the entirety of his personality. He probably screams wordlessly at action figures balanced atop his computer or something. No doubt it terrifies the neighbors.

Oh my God, you have no idea...