Rules Conundrum. Please Help Restore Peace To Our Group

The next campaign I run, I will allow magical items to advance Themselves.

Y'see, I want to add a little flavor and a lot of awe to magical items. Like Arthur's Excalibur, which likely got more powerful as he did, he never had any reason to just throw it away for a more magical sword.

Magical items' powers must be discovered, and work for the wielder, who has grown a bond between the item and him, worked to unlock it's powers, for the magic placed inside can be limitless.

This is done either by donating XP, or going on quests to unlock the powers of the magical item, as well as researching it's command words, it's history, the past wielders of the weapon, etc etc.

For example, the PCs run across a guy with a pair of boots who can run up walls, and he moves FAST, and it makes him faster. Okay, so these boots not only simulate spiderclimb, but boots of Speed and Striding/Springing. But when they get the magic item, it doesn't work for them.

So what does that mean? They must research the item, and find out how it was used, go on quests to unlock the powers from it. Perhaps these boots were the boots of Zhantif, the mighty Demonslayer, who used these boots to scale the cliffs of Karton, where the Palace of the Fiendsmith.

So they must go to complete the methods which could open the powers, like soaking the shoes in Fiendblood, or finding Zhantif's tomb to let the shoes set before his gravestone on a waned moon. Or try and mold new powers to them. For example, during the adventure, the person could suffer a great fall. Well, perhaps the boots develop a featherfall ability.

All associated with their levels, of course. And by doing this, they will also level up. So it's a process.

Makes having few magical items a lot more mysterious, MAGICAL, and interesting. Offers RP, and lets you KEEP that weapon. And it allows you to give badguys magical stuff, and not worrying about the party getting every trick they have.

Of course, this requires 1) Getting items which the PCs would be interested in, and inserting them into the campaign (Ie, if the fighter is an Axe man, let him hunt for an axe, if someone wants a Whip, let him do that. This might reward people for choosing 'weaker' weapons, which may be more interesting. Or giving them 'weaker' weapons, and thus allowing them to 'Develop' it along their carreer, like someone who suddenly wants to be a Lasher, or a dagger expert.

Also means no sundering. They'd skin you alive. :)
 
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Coredump said:
Personally, I really don't like the idea of 'upgrading' a magic item. It seems way too video-gameish.

Since I try to stick with the core rules.... *BEG* I just require really rare components or complex instructions in order to do it. (like going from a +1 to a +1 flaming may require the blood of a red dragon, or maybe that it is started on the same day of the year that the original was finished.... something like that.)

I justify it by the fact that it is harder to effect magical items, therefore you have to 'get past' the current magic, to add 'more magic'. So it takes special requirements to do so. Mostly people only do it if it is a special sword (heirloom, or 'lucky', or gift, or whatever.)

and which page of the dmg is the red dragon blood requirement for flaming? :D
 

i like Xarin's idea and I had planned on doing that with a bow for one of my players as he advanced and spent XP on the bow to learn what it does so he too can advance the bow to do more abilities and damage and thins...
 

I just require really rare components or complex instructions in order to do it. (like going from a +1 to a +1 flaming may require the blood of a red dragon, or maybe that it is started on the same day of the year that the original was finished.... something like that.)

He is placing a house rule restriction, not saying its a core rule. As he said 'I just require' not 'The PHB says'
 

Well, he did begin the line with "Since I try to stick with the core rules.... "

I think that is where the confusion sets in. I am confused by what he meant there.
 

I don't know what issue, but an issue of Dragon last year had rules for "leveled" magic items, which a character could increase in power by paying xp once he reached a threshhold character level. Good stuff.
 

magic weapons

Well, the Excalibur idea works for casters, with core rules.

I ran a druid back a few compaigns ago that was way into hunting and archery. One of his goals in life was to perfect himself as a hunter/archer and he saw his magical abilities as a way to do this. To that end he continually upgraded his bow over levels.

I think that was a very good usage of the upgrading rules. I don't think it was video-gamish at all. Excalibur upgrading with Arthur could have been Merlin behind the scenes working his mojo.

If you wanted to allow magical weapons to upgrade without a caster then I would recommend writing up an alternate Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat that worked for noncasters. It should be less powerful than the feat for casters. Perhaps it should draw larger amount of XP's in return for not costing gold (or if you still want to take gold away from your players, find a way to justify that). It should have level limits for +'s but no pre-reqs for spells.

---
StGabriel, the Taoist saint.
 

Pax, I disagree that it would make a 'glut' in the market. For a number of reasons.

In game: I would assume that some people are making items to sell, for profit. In your world, they make lots of things, including +1 swords. In my world, making more would lead to a reduction in price, so they make other things. Supply and demand.

Meta game: The whole economic model for magic items is screwed up anyway. The fact that prices are consistent everywhere, and that there is a consistent 100% markup, etc. It makes no sense. Why isn't someone flooding the market with items at 75%, and making money on volume. Why aren't some items at a premium, since there are not very many of them? Why does a ring of +10 concentration cost the same as +10 craft (baskets)?
So, it does not seem to be unreasonable that the economic 'model' will do just fine with some items being 'more available'



Maddman, I think getting a new, better weapon makes more sense than just 'powering up' your old one. To me it feels like the running over a power up in quake, presto more damage. I like it better when the norm is an item is as made, you can't make everything better all the time. Plus, I think it is too much of an advantage to get it for the 'same price' as if you did it all at once. At the very least, I would charge more (in gold and XP).

components==discourage Yes I agree, that is exactly the reason I do it.

bastard sword and DR: not sure your point, they can do the exact same IMC

I am not afraid to let them outfit as they see fit, we just disagree on what means they have to accomplish that.


Xarlen, sounds like it could be a really cool idea, and could make for some great hooks to adventures. If you can, check out the EarthDawn book/game. It deals with magic items that way. (sort of) as you get higher level, you can attach more threads, and unlock more powers. (From memory, been a few years)
Only concern (and minor) is to watch the 'asset' level. Since you will be giving them more magic for 'free'; just be sure you are not giving as much gold/magic during the campaign. (though it shouldn't be a big deal)


St. Gabriel, and I agree. Especially if that bow was 'special' to him somehow. But I would add restrictions to make it 'more special' Like he has to make it from a tree in his grove, cut on a special night. Or that he can upgrade it, but only on holy days for his sect/God. I don't think these would be particularly difficult, and would make it even more 'cooler' :-)


.
 

Sorry, last one was getting long...

and which page of the dmg is the red dragon blood requirement for flaming?
Well, right on page 244 :D
It says that part of the cost is for materials. Now, it didn't say what those materials are... so that is up to the DM to determine. This is not a house rule, it is the job of a DM.

Many just assume they are 'readily available' As the DM I choose to determine materials as I deem appropriate. (Hence the *BEG*--Big Evil Grin) So sometimes the material required is, um, difficult to get. It doesn't have to be expensive, just hard to come by, or at least none on hand.

It is just a matter that the material for 'upgrading' from +1 to +1 flaming is different than just making a +1 flaming from the start. It can still be done, you just need different parts. (this is true often in RL also, it is often a different job to go back and change something, than to doit that way from the start)

.
 

While a Gm can certainly decide that for his game it takes red dragon blood for a flaming sword, to say this is not a house rule is a bit of a stretch.

most of those GMs did not just "assume" the materials were available for making such things, they read the book.

PHB on using item feats...

"Raw Materials Cost: Creating a magic item requires costly components, most of which are consumed in the process. The cost of these materials equals half the cost of the item.

Using an item creation feat also requires access to a laboratory or magical workshop, special tools, and so on. A character generally has access to what he or she needs unless unusual circumstances apply. "

usually has access...

seems pretty clear.

heck, when i wrote wotc asking should the cost of materials be subject to local availability pricing rules they said "up to the gm bu i would not."

OF course, if the Gm feels the need to restrict or limit item creations feats in his game whether by requiring special materials or such, he can do so by any means he feels necessary.

***************

on the original subject, do not bother boosting the + of a weapon. By 10th level or so, when you need +2 or better, your mage's GMW spells will be good for your plusses. +1 weapons with lotsa of special abilities are much better choices for the long haul.

By 15th level, with chain and GME your mage will produce for one sixth level spell each day +5 weapons and ammo for the entire gang.
 

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