Rules Disagreement with my DM, please help!

[Kae'Yoss]

Hardly. A DM is not always 'right'. Sometimes, they are, yes. But sometimes, they just make a 'ruling', and there's a big difference. If a DM makes a ruling that bugs me to the point that I deem it unreasonably 'wrong', and it negatively impacts upon the game, then I'll just find a new DM. Simple as that really.

I know that. That's why I quit playing AD&D 2e altogether: to much stupid limits (on a related note, those 2e DM's refuse to play 3e "because everyone can play everything". They dispice Dwarven Mages although noone forces them to play it. They should get an honour seat on the balcony of the Muppet Show, or get many old-age pensioner friends so they can complain that everything was better when we had no dwarfen paladins, and only to channels on TV, being only b/w...)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Take input, yes, but as I said, the DM is always right, by definition. They cannot be wrong when they make a ruling. If you don't like the decision they made, feel free to contest, add input, whine, etc, but in the end, the DM's decision over rules the rules in the books. End of story. If you feel that it was a bad decision, or you disagree to the point that you feel they're a bad DM, then leave, don't invest your time in the game. They can be a bad DM, but they cannot be wrong on rulings they make.

They very much can. You can say "A DM can't ever break the rules" because they make the rules. But if those rules are crap, they are crap. And if you make such rules, you're a bad DM. If you handle players and NPC's differently, you're wrong (I had that where Monsters suddenly started to parry, but the players could not do such a thing)

 

[demon_jr]

Marius - a DM shouldn't be making on-the-spot-decisions which contradict the main rules. He just flat-out shouldn't. If he feels the need to change the rules, then fine, he should bring it up at some other time and house-rule it. He shouldn't wait until someone's done something (like already taken the bigby's hand spell, or already cast it etc) and then decide that the rules, as written, are irrelevant, because what he says goes. He should certainly be willing to take input from players over what is right and wrong.

The game is there for the enjoyment of the DM as much as the players is a statement that is often made. The fact that everyone in the game has an equal stake in it should be made far more often.

Not that I disagree you, but what would be considered "main rules"?

Would the core books be considered "main rules" and everything else "optional" such as the splatbooks, OA, etc.?

Just to clarify, I agree with you that "DMs shouldn't be making on-the-spot-decisions which contradict the main rules."

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The main rules is what you commonly use IYC. If you only use the three Core Rulebooks, then they're the main rules. If you also use the splat books all the time, they're main rules, too. If you play in Rokugan, The Domain of Dread, Faerûn, Krynn, whatever, then the respective Campaign Setting is also main rules. And all house rules you agree on beforehand (like: "we have LN Paladins here" before they make their charakters) are main rules.

 

[LokiDR]

Take input, yes, but as I said, the DM is always right, by definition. They cannot be wrong when they make a ruling. If you don't like the decision they made, feel free to contest, add input, whine, etc, but in the end, the DM's decision over rules the rules in the books. End of story. If you feel that it was a bad decision, or you disagree to the point that you feel they're a bad DM, then leave, don't invest your time in the game. They can be a bad DM, but they cannot be wrong on rulings they make.

A DM is not free to change the previously used rules because they want to/ forgot the rule they used. If a previously used rule is changed, the players should be told before they try to use it again.

Yes, a DM can be wrong. They can misremember the errata, rule, or previous ruling. If they don't correct this mistake when they are informed, they are in the wrong. The DM is NOT god. They are a referee, and if you think all referees are always right, then you must not watch sports. Making a rules call and being "right" are two different things.

 

[Marius]

A DM is not free to change the previously used rules because they want to/ forgot the rule they used. If a previously used rule is changed, the players should be told before they try to use it again.

Yes, a DM can be wrong. They can misremember the errata, rule, or previous ruling. If they don't correct this mistake when they are informed, they are in the wrong. The DM is NOT god. They are a referee, and if you think all referees are always right, then you must not watch sports. Making a rules call and being "right" are two different things.

A referee is not a viable analogy, as referees oversee sports that will have the same rules every time, whereas a DM oversees a world of their own creation, where the rules won't neccessarily hold true every time. The DM should explain themselves, and they should be consistent, but they can't be wrong on a ruling they make. They are God of that world.

 

[AGGEMAM]

I try. Actually, every time I see the name Sean K. Reynolds, I think of you

Yeah, I almost did not buy the CotSQ because of it, then I remembered he is not Sean ...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Enough of this wordplay! Yea, we all know, the DM's word is law. He cannot by definition contradict the rules, because he dictates them.

But he can be wrong: he can make bad judgement calls, or treat someone poorly, and so on. He won't contradict the rules, but he will make mistakes. The mistake her is not to get the rules wrong, but to be jerk. In the end, he has the last word, and the rules stay as they are. But, on the other hand, the players have the last word, too, because they don't have to stay. If you piss off the whole party, you'll be alone. Of course, some won't care, because they're pushed into the position ("You know the game, you make DM") and he may not care if they don't like his DM'ing, cause they have no other DM. But usually they make the DM cause they want to, and then they don't want to lose the players over being childish.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yeah, I almost did not buy the CotSQ because of it, then I remembered he is not Sean ...

Hee hee hee. What did you think you would find in there, then, if kreynolds wrote it?

 

[AGGEMAM]

Hee hee hee. What did you think you would find in there, then, if kreynolds wrote it?

What about the 'my 6554 best posts' chapter ?