Rules Disagreement with my DM, please help!

[LokiDR]

Okay the Dragon used deeper darkness.

I thought True seeing didn't help with this.

It can see through Illusions and Polymorph type spells. Deeper darkness is an Evocation or conjuration I think.

And if the dragon was in deeper darkness then the Blur and Mirror image have no effect anyway.

But I agree that the Spell sees/senses what the caster does unlike some other hand spells.

Just wondering.

later

True Seeing

Divination
Level: Clr 5, Drd 7, Knowledge 5, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The character confers on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus her vision to see into the Ethereal Plane. The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.

True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not cancel concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance.

Additionally, the divine version of this spell allows the subject to see auras, noting alignments of creatures at a glance.

Material Component: Worth at least 250 gp.

emphasis mine

 

[MerakSpielman]

Kreynolds

Just a general comment. Was reading the thread when something was nagging at the back of the mind. The main part nagging was that the deeper darkness should have made mirror image and blur a mute point then I realized that darkness isn't an illusion spell anymore. SoI looked up true sight on the SRD and it doesn't mention affecting Darkness.

I agree with this. (For what my opinion is worth )

 

[hammymchamham]

See, now you're just antagonizing me.

I try. Actually, every time I see the name Sean K. Reynolds, I think of you

 

[Saeviomagy]

Marius - a DM shouldn't be making on-the-spot-decisions which contradict the main rules. He just flat-out shouldn't. If he feels the need to change the rules, then fine, he should bring it up at some other time and house-rule it. He shouldn't wait until someone's done something (like already taken the bigby's hand spell, or already cast it etc) and then decide that the rules, as written, are irrelevant, because what he says goes. He should certainly be willing to take input from players over what is right and wrong.

The game is there for the enjoyment of the DM as much as the players is a statement that is often made. The fact that everyone in the game has an equal stake in it should be made far more often.

 

[dkilgo]

Yes, Bigby's Clenched Fist would hit the dragon because the text is pretty clear, and unambiguous.

Also, I do think that the DM is always right as long as he does not contradict all the official rules and thier clarifications. It is his world you have been given the priviledge to be a part of, and if you don't like it, "don't let the door hitcha where the gods splitcha!" The DM also has the priviledge of your company because without you the game would probably flop. A compramise must be made with the DM if his ruling is not to your liking, but do it another time. Swallow your pride, and move on.

It is just a piece of paper with a few scribbling on it.

 

[kreynolds]

It is his world you have been given the priviledge to be a part of, and if you don't like it, "don't let the door hitcha where the gods splitcha!"

See, that's just the thing. If the DM is a crappy DM, then being in his game most certainly is not a privilege...it's a nightmare. It doesn't really matter how special the DM thinks his game is. If it sucks, it sucks. No two ways about it.

The moral of the story here is not to suck.

The DM also has the priviledge of your company because without you the game would probably flop.

Yeah, it's kind of a two way street. I definately agree with you on that.

A compramise must be made with the DM if his ruling is not to your liking, but do it another time.

Sometimes a ruling can have such a negative impact on the game that it simply must be contested on the spot. Hopefully, it won't take long.

Swallow your pride, and move on.

It has nothing to do with pride, or at least it shouldn't. Generally, it has to do with a terribly controversial and disruptive ruling.

It is just a piece of paper with a few scribbling on it.

Then the DM shouldn't have a problem changing his ruling to benefit the quality of the game. Like I said, I agree that the quality of a game is a two way street, dependent upon both the DM and the players. However, the bottom line is that a DM is most certainly not always right. Ever. To assert such a thing is arrogant, egotistical, and egomaniacal. A DM like that will have many short games. If he or she is lucky though, they might be able to find other players that are just as arrogant, egotistical, and egomaniacal as they are.

By the way, for a DM to assert that he is always right displays that he or she is unwilling to let go of their own pride. Again, its a two way street.

A humble DM is a good DM, grasshopper.

 

[Deset Gled]

Since we're on the subject of how DMs con be wrong, I would also add that it is extremely and unquestionably wrong for the DM to ever change his stance on a ruling that he made without clearly explaining his change of plans to the players (that is, admiting he was wrong before ). If the DM in question later made an NPC wizard who cast the Bigby's spell and had it see through the character's illusions because the NPC could without first telling the players that he had changed his mind about the ruling, I would probably be getting ready to organize a circle beating.

As it is, the current group that I play with has 3 DMs. It's kind of annoying to begin with, because what occurs in one campaign may not take affect until after another one ends, etc. But more relevantly, its really odd to notice how all three of them make their own, substantially different, type of mistakes. One knows spells like the back of his hand, but has yet to figure out most of the finer points of the combat system (length of turns, occasionally initiative, and, of course, AoOs). Another knows the combat system well, but really doesn't pay attention to a lot of stuff that goes on (like the number of times the mage has cast magic missle today), and occasionally does stuff that's just plain sickening (like reroll dice for his girlfriend if they come out wrong, then deciding that all of the monsters were going to attack me because I noticed it and called him on it). The last one still has a lot of problems converting from 2e. All three can be equalling annoying at times (though I have, for the most part, stopped playing with the second one mentioned). I have to admit, though, that because of it, I've gotten to know the rules a lot better myself, because I got pissed off at contradicory rulings for long enough to make me become the closest thing our group has to a rules lawyer.

Edit: Oops, someone already made this point. Oh well. Right now, I'm so sick of studying computer science that I'm going over D+D stuff just to see numbers that aren't 1's and 0's.

 

[Skullfyre]

I agree. I had a DM would change elements of the game that were taken for granted in the middle of an encounter because he didn't like us getting through using the smart tatic we came up with. House rules are one thing, changing the game to spite your players is another.

Been there,done that. Bought the T-shirt

 

[LokiDR]

Been there,done that. Bought the T-shirt

Damn, I want that T-shirt.

Spitful __\
DM        /

 

[Marius]

Marius - a DM shouldn't be making on-the-spot-decisions which contradict the main rules. He just flat-out shouldn't. If he feels the need to change the rules, then fine, he should bring it up at some other time and house-rule it. He shouldn't wait until someone's done something (like already taken the bigby's hand spell, or already cast it etc) and then decide that the rules, as written, are irrelevant, because what he says goes. He should certainly be willing to take input from players over what is right and wrong.

Take input, yes, but as I said, the DM is always right, by definition. They cannot be wrong when they make a ruling. If you don't like the decision they made, feel free to contest, add input, whine, etc, but in the end, the DM's decision over rules the rules in the books. End of story. If you feel that it was a bad decision, or you disagree to the point that you feel they're a bad DM, then leave, don't invest your time in the game. They can be a bad DM, but they cannot be wrong on rulings they make.