D&D 4E Rules for Firearms in 4e - what do you use?

[Ryujin]

The most simple mechanic possible would be to consider the weapons to be either matchlocks or flintlocks. Give them damage that is fairly reasonable compared to other weapons in the campaign world. A pistol, for example, might do a D6. A rifle would do D8. A small field piece would do D12. Give them ranges that are less than that of a bow (3/4 shortbow for pistol and 3/4 longbow for rifle). Allow damage to open-end if the maximum on the damage die is rolled; one die only, for multi-die powers.

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

Bob, it also helped that a .80 calibre lead ball round sailed through plate armour, like a hot knife through yogurt.

Right, the advantages of firearms should be modeled with improved accuracy (bonus on to-hit roll) rather than increasing the damage.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I had considered making them Wondrous items with encounter powers, but I ultimately wanted something that could be used round-to-round, with special effects as encounter powers.

This is what I came up with (last year, when the seed of this game started):

Superior Weapon Proficiency - Black Powder Weapons
Benefit: You gain proficiency in all black powder weapons.

Black Powder Pistol
+1 proficiency bonus (they were inaccurate)
Range 6/12 (crappy range)
2d4 damage, brutal 1, high crit (if it hit, effect is devastating)
Reload Standard and Minor (slooooow to reload)
Black Powder group

Black Powder Musket:
+1 proficiency bonus
Range 10/20
2d6 damage, brutal 1, high crit
Reload Standard and Minor
Black Powder group

* I should also note that we use 15-second rounds, so one shot every 30 seconds, or once per encounter two in 30 seconds using an AP, is not unbelievable.

* I also made a feat called Fire At Will, which basically makes it Reload Move and Minor, to allow one shot every 15 seconds, which according to what I researched, was very do-able for a well-trained musketeer.

* The black powder weapons in the campaign are based on idealized flintlock designs. We have considered using backfire rules and including things like blunderbuss' as well.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

If you click over to the articles section, there's an article called "Firearms of the High Seas". It was written for pirates (to accompany the Pirate of the High Seas theme), but features a whole load of firearms which you could use elsewhere.

Read it now. Found stuff to steal.
Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

[Ryujin]

Nemesis Destiny - Maybe it would make more sense to make them a full round action to reload? Dragoons would frequently carry multiple pistols because it was essentially impossible to reload, in close combat, let alone at a gallop.

 

[Incendax]

I do not allow any kind of repeating firearm, but I happily allow any form of single shot black powder weapon. An actual example from a game would be...

Blunderbuss (Superior Weapon Proficiency)
+2 Proficiency Bonus, 5/10 Range, 4d6 damage, High Crit.
Standard Action to Reload.

I did have one player attempt to use multiple such weapons but it did not work out as well as he hoped since it was incredibly hard to conceal all those weapons, made him stand out like a sore thumb, and he couldn't afford to enchant them all. It was far more useful for enemy guards since it made them very threatening yet simultaneously easy to resolve every other turn which speeds up battle notably.

 

[Mad Hamish]

if you're looking at modelling real world firearms it's extremely dependent upon when you're looking at as to what they do.

Early guns were inaccurate, slow and low powered. A trained longbowman was far more dangerous, the advantage of guns was that they were easier to learn to use well enough for massed fire into cavalry charges or units in formations.

once rifling came in the accuracy of longguns picked up significantly but pistols were still very inaccurate until some stage in the 1900s (even then they're really not that good over anything other than short range)

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've always liked and used the idea that guns in a fantasy setting are kind of a MagiTech.

This, rules-wise, lets me do whatever the hell I want to with them without having to give any but the slightest not to reality.

I generally have them work mechanically like any other ranged projectile weapon -- crossbows or bows or atlatls or whatever. Ranged attack roll vs. AC for a damage within the normal range of damage for a ranged weapon (usually on the high end, with a lower attack bonus, giving ranged attackers the "Greatsword vs. Longsword" debate when choosing between guns and bows). Simple is best.

This gives them a niche, without making them predominant, because I still want a place for elves who twang bows regularly in my games. I just also want a slot for gunslingers and steampunk fantasy.

Depending on the melieu and archetypes I want dominating my setting, I might opt for more, less, or more complex rules.

For a more "realistic" take on a big loud violent kind of weapon I might do this:

• You can fire your gun every other round. It takes a standard action to load it. If a power gives you a multiattack, you can only fire your gun for one of the attacks, and you'll have to have another weapon in hand or loose the other (this would be the advantage of pistols over shotguns perhaps).
• Guns deal about double the damage that bows deal. 2d10. Maybe 2d8 for a pistol. Over a given combat, it'll kind of even out, but guns will "spike" harder.
• Guns attack Reflex and don't give you a Proficiency bonus. This simultaneously models "penetrating power" (it's not vs. AC! Armor is nigh useless!), and low accuracy (no bonus for being trained in them...), while being balanced (lower attack rolls vs. the lower Reflex defenses).
• Guns are expensive, loud, and hilariously un-subtle. They require a feat, a lot of gold (even to re-load), and don't mesh with Stealth. This has the potential of ratcheting them up to "too expensive" for most characters, though. Still, they were "too expensive" for most people historically, so that makes sense.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I've always liked and used the idea that guns in a fantasy setting are kind of a MagiTech.

This, rules-wise, lets me do whatever the hell I want to with them without having to give any but the slightest not to reality.

If it were 100% my campaign, I might have gone this route, but it's a shared world, so we must have consensus, and compromise.

I wanted something that worked more like guns in Final Fantasy Tactics, with magic enhancements and enchanted bullets and the like, but alas...

I generally have them work mechanically like any other ranged projectile weapon -- crossbows or bows or atlatls or whatever. Ranged attack roll vs. AC for a damage within the normal range of damage for a ranged weapon (usually on the high end, with a lower attack bonus, giving ranged attackers the "Greatsword vs. Longsword" debate when choosing between guns and bows). Simple is best.

This gives them a niche, without making them predominant, because I still want a place for elves who twang bows regularly in my games. I just also want a slot for gunslingers and steampunk fantasy.

Depending on the melieu and archetypes I want dominating my setting, I might opt for more, less, or more complex rules.

For a more "realistic" take on a big loud violent kind of weapon I might do this:

• You can fire your gun every other round. It takes a standard action to load it. If a power gives you a multiattack, you can only fire your gun for one of the attacks, and you'll have to have another weapon in hand or loose the other (this would be the advantage of pistols over shotguns perhaps).
• Guns deal about double the damage that bows deal. 2d10. Maybe 2d8 for a pistol. Over a given combat, it'll kind of even out, but guns will "spike" harder.
• Guns attack Reflex and don't give you a Proficiency bonus. This simultaneously models "penetrating power" (it's not vs. AC! Armor is nigh useless!), and low accuracy (no bonus for being trained in them...), while being balanced (lower attack rolls vs. the lower Reflex defenses).
• Guns are expensive, loud, and hilariously un-subtle. They require a feat, a lot of gold (even to re-load), and don't mesh with Stealth. This has the potential of ratcheting them up to "too expensive" for most characters, though. Still, they were "too expensive" for most people historically, so that makes sense.

This is pretty similar to where I ended up going with it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I wanted something that worked more like guns in Final Fantasy Tactics, with magic enhancements and enchanted bullets and the like, but alas...

Yeah, as far as those guns go, their main advantage is range and exploiting elemental weaknesses. They don't even deal that much damage. FF guns in general have a reputation for being "reliable" (they don't usually miss) but low in damage (forex, they don't take your stats into account).

For FFZ's main gun-user, it went through a few different ideas, and at one point even had a "gunner" job. But I am fond of the idea of tying weapon damage dice to class (which happens by default anyway with weapon proficiencies) rather than to the equipment itself. I'm still fiddling with exactly how to do equipment over there....but anyway.

Something I forgot to mention: a gun's basic attack should target Reflex, but if a gun is used as a weapon in a power, things get a bit messy. Most [W] powers assume a proficiency bonus on the attack roll, and so target AC. Most Implement powers don't, and so target things other than AC. You might let a gun-wielder turn a power with the weapon keyword that targets AC into one that targets Reflex (at least with the gun attack), but that gets a bit messy. Perhaps you just want to eat the penalty ("guns are inaccurate"), but that would lead to guns probably being used mostly for an attack action at the beginning of combat and then being dropped.

Which, aside from balance considerations, is pretty much how they were used IRL, so that might be a good thing for your game (it'll add a bit of PC damage on top of everything, but not even that much).