Rules forum "Book Club": PH spells A-O
- Thread starter Tom Cashel
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coyote6
Adventurer
ashockney said:
Vastly useful when you're in a forest, and there's a treant hiding 120 feet away, and he just keeps animating trees to attack you. That's four +12 attacks for 2d6+9 damage per round, for every round until you can beat the treant's Hide +9, with modifiers for distance and having a few hundred trees as decoys. In that situation, anti-plant shell was worth a couple of dozen lightning bolts.
Bestow Curse: the PCs in my group used this to great effect on a stone giant. That 50% chance of no action, with some (un)lucky die rolls, left the giant standing around twiddling her thumbs for 3 straight rounds. By that time, it was flank-city. Lowering a spellcaster's casting attribute by 6 can be effective, too, if you can get 'em to fail the Will save. "Gosh, Mr. Sorcerer, you mean you can't cast that chain lightning while you've only got a 13 Cha? That's too bad!"
Tom Cashel
First Post
Let's keep going in this one! I'm up to O--60 pages down and 30 more to go! 
Here's the questions I had:
Lesser Planar Binding
This spell makes reference to the fact that the called creature gets to "make an SR roll" to avoid the effect. SR is defensive; there is no way to "roll" your SR to avoid an effect. There is no errata on this. I can only assume that the caster rolls against the SR.
Otto's Irresistable Dance
Can the victim do a Total Defense maneuver to negate that -4 to AC?
Here's the questions I had:
Lesser Planar Binding
This spell makes reference to the fact that the called creature gets to "make an SR roll" to avoid the effect. SR is defensive; there is no way to "roll" your SR to avoid an effect. There is no errata on this. I can only assume that the caster rolls against the SR.
Otto's Irresistable Dance
Can the victim do a Total Defense maneuver to negate that -4 to AC?
James McMurray
First Post
Considering that the vistim of the Dance can take no actions other than dancing, I'd have to say they couldn't fight defensively.
Tom Cashel
First Post
Otto's Dance is truly irresistable, eh?
Just keep dancing while we gather 'round and pound you with weapons, ya damn umber hulk.
Just keep dancing while we gather 'round and pound you with weapons, ya damn umber hulk.
James McMurray
First Post
If we're continuining in this thread:
C:
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Calm Emotions. I never noticed how powerful this spell can be! You can turn a fight between your party and 15 other people into several fights between your party and one guy.
Call Lightning: Looks nice at first, but the casting time and restrictions make it a rearely used spell at best.
Change Self: Why would anyone use this when Alter Self is just one level higher. The addition of the will save to pierce the illusion makes it even worse.
Chaos Hammer (and its cousins): I really like these. The hammer's ability to stagger foes can really be nice. Of course, they are best used as spell-like abilities by outsiders, because the alignment restrictions on them onl make them useful to parties that know what they'll be fighting.
Charm X: I've seen these be really powerful in games where the DM didn't know how to handle them. In other games, they are still useful, but not as deadly as when they are considered lower-level versions of Dominate X.
Circle of Death: I've never seen this used. Its rare that 11th and 12th level characters fight big hordes of weenies, and when they do, this spell is unnecessary, as swords will have the same effect over time.
Cloak of Chaos (and its brothers): These spells rock! I never noticed them until I started using outsiders with them at will against the party. They make it harder for you to hit the guy, and try to punish you if you succeed.
Color Spray: Very nice spell for 1st level. In many ways it is much better than magic missile.
Command Plants: Why would you ever bother unless you knew you were about to fight a plant creature?
Commune: My high-level party used this all the time.
Confusion: Another highly useful spell. This really lets you disrupt large groups of enemies, possibly even causing infighting.
Contact Other Plane: Never seen this used. The possible downsides do not make up for the upsides. Especially when a party of that level will have the ability to cast Commune and/or Legend Lore.
Control Plants: Again, why?
Creeping Doom: Can be very devestating, but the full round casting time makes it hard to pull off. Also, at tat level, most foes have at least 5/+1 DR.
That's it for now. Let's not jump to the L's and O's just yet!
C:
----------
Calm Emotions. I never noticed how powerful this spell can be! You can turn a fight between your party and 15 other people into several fights between your party and one guy.
Call Lightning: Looks nice at first, but the casting time and restrictions make it a rearely used spell at best.
Change Self: Why would anyone use this when Alter Self is just one level higher. The addition of the will save to pierce the illusion makes it even worse.
Chaos Hammer (and its cousins): I really like these. The hammer's ability to stagger foes can really be nice. Of course, they are best used as spell-like abilities by outsiders, because the alignment restrictions on them onl make them useful to parties that know what they'll be fighting.
Charm X: I've seen these be really powerful in games where the DM didn't know how to handle them. In other games, they are still useful, but not as deadly as when they are considered lower-level versions of Dominate X.
Circle of Death: I've never seen this used. Its rare that 11th and 12th level characters fight big hordes of weenies, and when they do, this spell is unnecessary, as swords will have the same effect over time.
Cloak of Chaos (and its brothers): These spells rock! I never noticed them until I started using outsiders with them at will against the party. They make it harder for you to hit the guy, and try to punish you if you succeed.
Color Spray: Very nice spell for 1st level. In many ways it is much better than magic missile.
Command Plants: Why would you ever bother unless you knew you were about to fight a plant creature?
Commune: My high-level party used this all the time.
Confusion: Another highly useful spell. This really lets you disrupt large groups of enemies, possibly even causing infighting.
Contact Other Plane: Never seen this used. The possible downsides do not make up for the upsides. Especially when a party of that level will have the ability to cast Commune and/or Legend Lore.
Control Plants: Again, why?
Creeping Doom: Can be very devestating, but the full round casting time makes it hard to pull off. Also, at tat level, most foes have at least 5/+1 DR.
That's it for now. Let's not jump to the L's and O's just yet!
The "C"s
Call Lightning - excellent spell, with a huge limitation on a non-controllable element. Only seen it used once in over 10 campaigns.
Calm Animals - this spell affects beasts and magical beasts. Limits on Int and HD keep it reasonable. Now a 1st level spell worth a look.
Calm Emotions - can anyone say EQ mesmerizing? The "concentration" duration stinks. This would be a cool spell if you could simply suppress other "emotion" and "morale" affects (listed in the spell) without concentration.
Cause Fear - instead of capping the spell at 6 HD, why not simply cap the "flee" effect? Still a great spell in low levels, esp for Clr and Brd.
Chain Lightning - I can still remember reading the first time, and noticing right away that this was one of the first multiple target, direct damage spells I'd ever seen. Excellent! Too bad the damage blows for the level.
Change Self - basically a +10 to a skill spell. Interetsing thought, what other 1st/2nd level spells would make for good "buffs" to skills with good durations (10 min/lvl). Can't say I'm a big fan of the flat +10 either, I'd prefer to see +5 increments at least.
Changestaff - nice summoning spell for 13th level, considering the 1 hour/level duration. Also of note on this spell is the unique "focus" requirements. Very cool concept. This could be used in other ways to make for some excellent spells.
Charm Person - there's an opposed Cha check to trick your "charmed" person. Why not Bluff or Diplomacy check?
Chill Touch - what a great spell. Show me a first level spell anywhere with the capacity to deal 10d6 damage + Str Drains. Excellent.
Circle of Death - all insta-kill spells are made far superior with hit point caps, which then deal damage over those caps. For example, this spell might have a cap of say around 50 hit points, and deal 6d10 damage (Fort save for half) if over the cap. Otherwise, the spell is EXTREMELY effective at 11th when you first get it, and quickly diminishes to no effect within a level or two.
Circle of Doom - Cleric damage spells suck, granted, but 12 - 24 points, AoE, with a save for half at 5th level? Maybe, maybe, I could buy this at 4th level, given that you can only affect enemies.
Clairaudience/voyance - nice range. Anywhere known on the plane.
Clone - they took out all the stuff about the clone wanting to kill you if you're still alive. Interesting story ideas behind this spell..
Cloudkill - no save, DoT, against an irresistable type of energy. Yeah, that's cool. Spell sculpt and any type of control, and this is a great spell.
Command Plants - just another reason NEVER to attack a druid's grove. Is there anything more effective at defending its territory?
Commune - it would be so great if this spell just disappeared.
Creeping Doom - awesome!
Call Lightning - excellent spell, with a huge limitation on a non-controllable element. Only seen it used once in over 10 campaigns.
Calm Animals - this spell affects beasts and magical beasts. Limits on Int and HD keep it reasonable. Now a 1st level spell worth a look.
Calm Emotions - can anyone say EQ mesmerizing? The "concentration" duration stinks. This would be a cool spell if you could simply suppress other "emotion" and "morale" affects (listed in the spell) without concentration.
Cause Fear - instead of capping the spell at 6 HD, why not simply cap the "flee" effect? Still a great spell in low levels, esp for Clr and Brd.
Chain Lightning - I can still remember reading the first time, and noticing right away that this was one of the first multiple target, direct damage spells I'd ever seen. Excellent! Too bad the damage blows for the level.
Change Self - basically a +10 to a skill spell. Interetsing thought, what other 1st/2nd level spells would make for good "buffs" to skills with good durations (10 min/lvl). Can't say I'm a big fan of the flat +10 either, I'd prefer to see +5 increments at least.
Changestaff - nice summoning spell for 13th level, considering the 1 hour/level duration. Also of note on this spell is the unique "focus" requirements. Very cool concept. This could be used in other ways to make for some excellent spells.
Charm Person - there's an opposed Cha check to trick your "charmed" person. Why not Bluff or Diplomacy check?
Chill Touch - what a great spell. Show me a first level spell anywhere with the capacity to deal 10d6 damage + Str Drains. Excellent.
Circle of Death - all insta-kill spells are made far superior with hit point caps, which then deal damage over those caps. For example, this spell might have a cap of say around 50 hit points, and deal 6d10 damage (Fort save for half) if over the cap. Otherwise, the spell is EXTREMELY effective at 11th when you first get it, and quickly diminishes to no effect within a level or two.
Circle of Doom - Cleric damage spells suck, granted, but 12 - 24 points, AoE, with a save for half at 5th level? Maybe, maybe, I could buy this at 4th level, given that you can only affect enemies.
Clairaudience/voyance - nice range. Anywhere known on the plane.
Clone - they took out all the stuff about the clone wanting to kill you if you're still alive. Interesting story ideas behind this spell..
Cloudkill - no save, DoT, against an irresistable type of energy. Yeah, that's cool. Spell sculpt and any type of control, and this is a great spell.
Command Plants - just another reason NEVER to attack a druid's grove. Is there anything more effective at defending its territory?
Commune - it would be so great if this spell just disappeared.
Creeping Doom - awesome!
The D's
Daze - one of the best cantrips
Death Knell - very restricted use for limited return.
Deathward - absolute must-have spell, but in a TOUGH level for spells. It's tough to know when to cast this spell, because the duration is only 10 min/lvl. Not enough to be up "all the time".
Delay Poison - makes you immune for up to 1 hr/lvl, that's pretty darn good, and more along the lines of how I'd like to see Deathward
Delayed Blast - did we ever get an offical confirmation? 1d8/lvl (15d8 max) or 1d6/lvl (20d6 max)? This is right in those in-between levels. The delayed effect is much better for DM's than players, with the exception of Timestop.
Destruction - excellent spell, I like Andy Collin's suggested amendment
Detect Animals/Plants/Evil/Secret Doors - They made these spells much better than I had realized. Very usable for their level.
Detect Scrying - very effective. I'm not sure that I like how this becomes a "required" spell to be cast everyday by almost all PC's...could this be a a better skill?
Detect Snares and Pits - hmmm...no thanks.
Detect Undead - redundant with Detect Evil for Clr and Pal?
All Detect Spells - there are a number of opportunities for a competence bonus to skill checks with this line of spells such as Wilderness Lore (Track), Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Search (Find Traps), etc.
Dimensional Anchor - what a great spell
Diminish Plants - ummm...heh. Ok.
Discern Lies - another spell that should go away. It can be gotten around, but not by the perpetrator. The ramifications of such a spell are mind-boggling.
Discern Location - this spell is devastating. Find anyone, anywhere, no save, no SR, no form of prevention from scrying will overcome it. Whew!
Distintegration - great spell. I like Andy Collins' version even better (deals 20d6+1d6/lvl with a failed save).
Dismissal - this spell needs the requirement that the creature can't return for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year. Otherwise, this spell seems pretty useless, particularly with the weird saving throw (add creatures HD, subtract your level).
Dispel Evil - Could you "counter-spell" with the dispel magic effect from dispel evil?
Displacement - no somatic component, never caught that. Very nice.
Disrupt Undead - nice cantrip
Divine Favor - excellent spell. I wish they made all "range" personal spells unable to be made a part of magic items (or perhaps could only be activated by that class). Quickened, and combined with Divine Power, you're a melee machine.
Divine Power - awesome.
Doom - A -2 is not very relevant beyond around 5th level.
Dream - very cool role-playing options
Daze - one of the best cantrips
Death Knell - very restricted use for limited return.
Deathward - absolute must-have spell, but in a TOUGH level for spells. It's tough to know when to cast this spell, because the duration is only 10 min/lvl. Not enough to be up "all the time".
Delay Poison - makes you immune for up to 1 hr/lvl, that's pretty darn good, and more along the lines of how I'd like to see Deathward
Delayed Blast - did we ever get an offical confirmation? 1d8/lvl (15d8 max) or 1d6/lvl (20d6 max)? This is right in those in-between levels. The delayed effect is much better for DM's than players, with the exception of Timestop.
Destruction - excellent spell, I like Andy Collin's suggested amendment
Detect Animals/Plants/Evil/Secret Doors - They made these spells much better than I had realized. Very usable for their level.
Detect Scrying - very effective. I'm not sure that I like how this becomes a "required" spell to be cast everyday by almost all PC's...could this be a a better skill?
Detect Snares and Pits - hmmm...no thanks.
Detect Undead - redundant with Detect Evil for Clr and Pal?
All Detect Spells - there are a number of opportunities for a competence bonus to skill checks with this line of spells such as Wilderness Lore (Track), Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Search (Find Traps), etc.
Dimensional Anchor - what a great spell
Diminish Plants - ummm...heh. Ok.
Discern Lies - another spell that should go away. It can be gotten around, but not by the perpetrator. The ramifications of such a spell are mind-boggling.
Discern Location - this spell is devastating. Find anyone, anywhere, no save, no SR, no form of prevention from scrying will overcome it. Whew!
Distintegration - great spell. I like Andy Collins' version even better (deals 20d6+1d6/lvl with a failed save).
Dismissal - this spell needs the requirement that the creature can't return for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, or 1 year. Otherwise, this spell seems pretty useless, particularly with the weird saving throw (add creatures HD, subtract your level).
Dispel Evil - Could you "counter-spell" with the dispel magic effect from dispel evil?
Displacement - no somatic component, never caught that. Very nice.
Disrupt Undead - nice cantrip
Divine Favor - excellent spell. I wish they made all "range" personal spells unable to be made a part of magic items (or perhaps could only be activated by that class). Quickened, and combined with Divine Power, you're a melee machine.
Divine Power - awesome.
Doom - A -2 is not very relevant beyond around 5th level.
Dream - very cool role-playing options
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