Rules Questions Regarding Alchemical Fire

[asnys]

So, a recent thread on the wizards.com boards has inspired me to try to make a grenadier, chucking alchemist's fire at my foes with gleeful abandon. However, the status of alchemical fire and other splash weapons in relation to other feats seems poorly detailed. So, I have some rules questions, and I am hoping that the kind experts of the board can help me find answers to them:

1. Can a rogue Sneak Attack with a splash weapon? And, if she can, does the extra damage apply only to the first round of an alchemical fire's damage, or to both?

2. Can one take weapon focus or specialization in alchemist's fire? Also, if one can specialize, does the extra damage apply only to the first round's damage or both?

3. Can one hurl multiple alchemical fires using the Quick Draw feat? And how would this interact with the use of a Gnomish Calculus (Arms and Equipment Guide, p. 6)?

4. Similarly, can Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, and other ranged weapon feats be applied to alchemist's fire?

5. Finally, does the Magical Training feat (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, p. 36) allow a character to use the Craft (Alchemy) skill? Note that I only have the 3.0 book; I do not know if it has changed for 3.5.

Thanks for your help!

 

[atomn]

I'm no expert, but I would say:

1. Yes to Sneak Attack Damage but only the first round (but not to the second because he's aware of you and no longer flat-footed).

2. Yes to both Weap. Focus and Specialization with the extra damage to both rounds (because you're an expert at damaging with it).

3. Yes, up to your full number of attacks as with any thrown weapon. I don't know what the Gnomish Calculus is.

4. Yes to all of them.

5. It sounds legit to me.

On a side note if you're using 3.0 rules, there's a feat "Pyromaniac" that gives extra damage to fire based damage.

 

[atomn]

By the way, once you have him statted out, could you post him? It's a very unique idea, I'd like to see what feats, etc you settle on!

 

[asnys]

I'm no expert, but I would say:

1. Yes to Sneak Attack Damage but only the first round (but not to the second because he's aware of you and no longer flat-footed).

2. Yes to both Weap. Focus and Specialization with the extra damage to both rounds (because you're an expert at damaging with it).

3. Yes, up to your full number of attacks as with any thrown weapon. I don't know what the Gnomish Calculus is.

It is basically a sling that hurls alchemical weapons. Changes the range increment to 50'; a considerable improvement.

4. Yes to all of them.

5. It sounds legit to me.

On a side note if you're using 3.0 rules, there's a feat "Pyromaniac" that gives extra damage to fire based damage.

I am trying to use 3.5, but I have access to basically no material other than d20SRD.org.

Thanks for the help. I will certainly post the character once it is done up. The basic idea is the old rogue sneak-attacker, only using alchemical fire instead of daggers, thereby making up for the rogue's lower BAB as compared to a fighter (since splash weapons are only a touch attack). It takes quite a few levels for the build to start looking like a grenadier. At low levels, alchemical fire is so expensive that it has to be restricted to worthwhile targets, not to mention needing levels to build up your ranged attack feats and sneak attack.

An alternative I am considering would be just going with fighter alone, and cranking out the ranged attack feats. It would be more feat-intensive than traditional archery, but it has slightly better damage, and you only need a touch attack to hit.

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are a couple of feats in PHB2 for grenadiers.

Weapon Focus isn't applicable; one of the prerequisites is "Proficiency with selected weapon", and splash weapons require no proficiency.

Remember, Sneak Attack certainly won't apply to anyone who just gets splashed. I'd say that yes, it applies to someone who receives a direct hit, but you'll find others may disagree

-Hyp.

 

[Bad Paper]

Remember, Sneak Attack certainly won't apply to anyone who just gets splashed. I'd say that yes, it applies to someone who receives a direct hit, but you'll find others may disagree

I'm having a hard time agreeing. Can't put my finger on why.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm having a hard time agreeing. Can't put my finger on why.

It requires an attack roll and deals damage; why should it be less sneak-attackable than, say, Orb of Acid?

-Hyp.

 

[Bad Paper]

I dunno, I guess because I am thinking too hard about the container, which is what actually strikes the victim. The damage comes from napalm spraying all over the body, not from striking the victim in the jugular, you know? Every other sneak-attackable thing (weapon, ammunition, spell) draws its damage from the point of contact. The flask that contains the alchemist's fire doesn't actually do any damage.

I am totally overthinking this, and won't call anyone wrong for allowing a sneak-alchemist's-fire-attack, but I just won't.

 

[asnys]

I dunno, I guess because I am thinking too hard about the container, which is what actually strikes the victim. The damage comes from napalm spraying all over the body, not from striking the victim in the jugular, you know? Every other sneak-attackable thing (weapon, ammunition, spell) draws its damage from the point of contact. The flask that contains the alchemist's fire doesn't actually do any damage.

I am totally overthinking this, and won't call anyone wrong for allowing a sneak-alchemist's-fire-attack, but I just won't.

If I was DMing, I would probably disallow it, even if it meant a house rule. Fortunately, the circumstances are such that the only thing that matters for this purpose is the legalistic, rules-as-written, not what makes sense.

So, do you think I could take Weapon Focus/Specialization on the Gnomish Calculus? It IS a weapon, and one you need to take a proficiency in...

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, do you think I could take Weapon Focus/Specialization on the Gnomish Calculus? It IS a weapon, and one you need to take a proficiency in...

Focus - yes, I expect so.
Specialization - no, the Calculus deals no damage; the Alchemist's Fire deals damage according to its properties.

-Hyp.