Rulings on Ray of enfeeblement

[starwed]

To give a rationale, a dice roll is not a variable, numeric effect. Your wizard doesn't cast magic missile and then stand there tossing caltrops d4s. The effect of magic missile is not really 1d4+1 damage, but 2-5 damage with a particular distribution.

And that's the variable numeric effect which is multiplied by 1.5.

 

[IcyCool]

Making the ray a Fort save for half might be reasonable.

The only other spell I can think of off the top of my head that requires a save in addition to the ranged touch attack is Disintegrate.

I played a sorceror in a campaign that went to 13th level, and the spells that saw the most use from me (i.e. I used the continuously from the point I got them up to the final encounter) were:

Magic Missile
Mage Armor
Ray of Enfeeblement

Scorching Ray

Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement
Empowered Magic Missile
Fireball
Fly

Greater Invisibility

Disintegrate

I wouldn't say it's overpowered, at least not any moreso than Magic Missile or Mage armor.

 

[Darklone]

Comparing what a Color Spray can do to a group of ogres, I think Ray of Enfeeblement is rather weak to begin with...

Later it's pretty strong for a level 1 spell, that's right, but far from being overpowered. Most wizards/sorcerers I knew prefered to blast the enemies fighter with Scorching Rays instead of making him a little bit weaker.

 

[Thanee]

I wouldn't call the +1/2 levels part the variable numeric effect in question, myself.

You just look at it from the wrong angle, I think. There is only the spell effect, and it is either variable, numeric, or it is not. You don't look at partial effects, or somesuch. The effect is 1d6+5, not one effect of 1d6 and another of +5.

Got any more examples to support that?

Yeah, but others have already posted the primary source above.

What if you've got some ability like the war mage's spellcasting edge thing that adds to damage, would you consider that part of the variable numeric effect and include that in the 1.5?

Nope, it's not part of the spell effect.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Cam Banks]

Check out the example given for empowering a magic missile. It inlcudes the +1 part of 1d4+1.

I looked around using Google for more discussion, and I concede the point. The variable effect is the result of the dice plus level dependent bonus, not just the dice. Although some of the discussions are incredibly convoluted (and heated!) the simplest solution is just to roll all the dice (including bonuses) and multiply by 1.5.

It's interesting that magic missile is the example, though, since the 1d4+1 is fixed; there is no level-dependent bonus, just a +1 bonus to each missile.

This has never come up in any of the games I've run, oddly enough. People have always used Empower Spell on straight Xd6 type spell effects like fireball.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Thanee]

I played a sorceror in a campaign that went to 13th level, ...

Same here, only that we got to 16th level (or was it 17th?).

Ray of Enfeeblement (and the empowered one) saw some use during the middle levels, but later on, the effect was simply too low to be worth an action in combat. It's effectivity was already going down by 8th~10th level compared to the other choices I had. Of course, it was still nice, when there was a not so tough combat, in order to preserve resources (my higher spell slots and the fighter's hit points), but that's about it. Later, there are much more effective ways to take the baddies out of combat.

The real nasties rather got stuff like twinned empowered Orb of Force to suffer. And another quickened Orb of Force for good measure.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

It's interesting that magic missile is the example, though, since the 1d4+1 is fixed; there is no level-dependent bonus, just a +1 bonus to each missile.

Level-dependant or not doesn't really matter. All that matters is, that it is variable (it is) and numeric (yup).

Ray of Enfeeblement, False Life, and Fire Shield benefit a lot from Empower Spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Krafen]

I find it humorous that this particular argument has been going on since Eric Noah started these boards.

 

[Wish]

Yet more circumstantial evidence: the new version of Fires of Purity. It no longer has a variable effect, because the old version could be empowered, and that was considered to be a little too strong.

 

[lukelightning]

Woo hoo! I was wrong! I tend to like being wrong on these boards, because normally my mistaken interpretation is weaker than the actual one.

Now I can't wait to use a sudden empowered ray of enfeeblement against the next big bad bruiser we fight.