Runestaves and Metamagic

[Twowolves]

In the new MIC, they introduce the concept of Runestaves:

These items let you swap a spell slot/spell in memory to cast a spell from the staff up to 3 times per day. It specifically states that the caster provides material components and any xp costs at the time of casting, and that the staff must we held in hand and manipulated in lieu of the normal somatic components. All fine and dandy.

BUT: it states that if you wish to modify the spell with a metamagic feat that you know, all you have to do is sacrifice a higher level spell slot as normal. The question is, does this allow sorcerers to get around the full-round casting time drawback for spontaneous casters? And for wizards, if all you have to do is sacrifice a higher level spell slot, does this negate the dreaded anti-metamagic rod arguement of "spontaneous metamagic" being unavailable/too potent for wizards?

I would have also mentioned the new metamagic rods and how the new descriptions in the MIC affect the old metamagic rod use debates, but I think I'd rather let that beast remain in the grave.

Oh, and speaking of Runestaves, has anyone else noticed that not all of the ones in the book cost what the guidelines in the back of the MIC say they should cost? Odd that.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Page 224, second paragraph. From that desription, it sounds to me that in holding the Runestaff, a Wizard would be able to drop a spell for one of the spells in the Runestaff, just like a Cleric can drop a spell for healing. The Sorcerer would consider that spell known, and be able to cast that spell as he would any other that he knows.

 

[Twowolves]

Page 224, second paragraph. From that desription, it sounds to me that in holding the Runestaff, a Wizard would be able to drop a spell for one of the spells in the Runestaff, just like a Cleric can drop a spell for healing. The Sorcerer would consider that spell known, and be able to cast that spell as he would any other that he knows.

Yes, that's what they do, but that answer doesn't address anything regarding metamagic casting times.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Um, they would cast the spells as normal. So it would take a full round.

 

[Twowolves]

Um, they would cast the spells as normal. So it would take a full round.

So, a wizard using one would then get the advantage of adding any metamagic feat he knows to any spell he casts with a Runestaff, spontaneously, at the time of casting, with no increase in casting time?

 

[James McMurray]

It depends on whether the spell is being cast spontaneously or not. Spontaneous spells with added metamagics take a full round whether you're a sorcerer, cleric, or whatever.

It sounds to me like runestaves should count as spontaneous casting, but I can't point to anything in that article to prove it.

 

[Croesus]

In the new MIC, they introduce the concept of Runestaves:

These items let you swap a spell slot/spell in memory to cast a spell from the staff up to 3 times per day. It specifically states that the caster provides material components and any xp costs at the time of casting, and that the staff must we held in hand and manipulated in lieu of the normal somatic components. All fine and dandy.

BUT: it states that if you wish to modify the spell with a metamagic feat that you know, all you have to do is sacrifice a higher level spell slot as normal. The question is, does this allow sorcerers to get around the full-round casting time drawback for spontaneous casters? And for wizards, if all you have to do is sacrifice a higher level spell slot, does this negate the dreaded anti-metamagic rod arguement of "spontaneous metamagic" being unavailable/too potent for wizards?

I would have also mentioned the new metamagic rods and how the new descriptions in the MIC affect the old metamagic rod use debates, but I think I'd rather let that beast remain in the grave.

Oh, and speaking of Runestaves, has anyone else noticed that not all of the ones in the book cost what the guidelines in the back of the MIC say they should cost? Odd that.

It really depends on how nit-picky you want to be.

Quote from MIC (runestaves):
"You can apply the effect of metamagic feats you know..."

Quote from DMG (metamagic rods):
"Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day."

And:
"A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses."

Quote from PHB (metamagic feats):
"But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell."

Since using a metamagic rod isn't the same as "knowing" the metamagic feat, and the runestaff description specifically says "metamagic feats you know", a GM could rule that the two cannot be used together.

If, OTOH, you decide to allow the two to work together, then the only wording on casting time for metamagic rods specifies sorcerers - not wizards, implying that they could use the rod without increasing casting time. Of course, such a reading means bards could use a metamagic rod without an extended casting time, which is untenable, given the wording from the PHB, which clearly implies that any spontaneous use of metamagic requires extended casting time.

Personally, I probably wouldn't allow them to work together, but if I did, all casters would be treated the same - if the spell is being modified spontaneously, it has increased casting time.