Running clerics as spiritual counselors?

[Jdvn1]

Moreover, Clerics who disagree with the running of the church or the politicking might not be part of the clergy at all. And, because of that, they might sometimes be bad counselors.

Long story short: if you want an NPC that's a priestly counselor, just say he's good at it and give him the relevant skills (Diplomacy, etc). If you want a character that's a counselor, same story. Cleric or not, it doesn't make a difference.

 

[hong]

That might work for humorous adventures and campaigns, but it's unlikely in more "straight" games.

I mean, unless such clerics are recruited by the deities or associated outsiders directly (which isn't outside of the realm of possibility, depending on the setting), the cult has to spread somehow.

Direct conquest usually works.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Direct conquest usually works.

That would work in the case of a war god, but not with a god of slaughter.

 

[hong]

That would work in the case of a war god, but not with a god of slaughter.

War involves slaughter, especially if provoked by followers of a god of slaughter.

This is getting silly. What, now clerics can only take actions specifically related to their deity? So nobody but clerics of Fharlanghn are allowed to travel?

 

[Mokona]

How often do the other members of a party come to the cleric for advice - other when they are discussing combat tactics? How often do clerics mediate disputes between party members?

Roleplaying between player characters usually uses almost no mechanical rules. This is probably more true for intra-party play than any other element of Dungeons & Dragons. I think every game I've ever played in had a golden rule that PCs couldn't use skill checks to force other PCs to change their actions (mostly Diplomacy checks were forbidden).

There is little connection between character class and the skill of the player in giving advice or mediating disputes between real people (i.e. other players). Unless mechanics intrude into intra-party roleplaying I don't see that Cleric players will play a greater leader/mentor/advisor role in the tight knit group (which is what a PC party should be).

I do like to see Cleric player characters interact with NPCs as advisors and mediators. Sadly, when my Monk tried to do this (Monks were part of the Cleric orders) off camera the Dungeon Master said, "yeah, yeah, fine" and didn't actually allow my actions to affect the future course of the game. So I didn't waste my time doing that again.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

War involves slaughter, especially if provoked by followers of a god of slaughter.

This is getting silly. What, now clerics can only take actions specifically related to their deity? So nobody but clerics of Fharlanghn are allowed to travel?

Of course they are allowed to do other things. But still, their portfolio tends to give their activities direction.

Clerics of war gods might function well as conquerers - including becoming a ruler capable of starting wars in the first place. Logistics, tactics, strategy, and even keeping one's own side happy are all part of war. If they do it right, they can keep a kingdom running and engaging in war for a very long time - perhaps even indefinitely - and thus please their god and increase their following.

The portfolio of slaughter, on the other hand, does not include any of the self-restraint which can be part of the war portfolio. Even when a follower of such a god manages to become a ruler, it is unlikely that his reign will last long - for engaging in large-scale slaughter is detrimental to long-term rule. Yet a ruler has the capability for engaging in large-scale slaughter, at the probable cost of his position.

Thus, a ruler who also follows the god of slaughter - unlike a follower of a war god - has to refrain from engaging in slaughter to a significant degree to maintain his rule in the long term. Would a cleric who really follows such a god do that? I doubt it.

Thus, it seems to me that followers of such a god would operate more like a hidden cult, acting behind the scenes - for while they might sometimes be able to become rulers in their own right, they are unlikely to do so for long. Thus, converting new recruits through conquest is unlikely under most circumstances.

 

[hong]

Of course they are allowed to do other things. But still, their portfolio tends to give their activities direction.

Clerics of war gods might function well as conquerers - including becoming a ruler capable of starting wars in the first place. Logistics, tactics, strategy, and even keeping one's own side happy are all part of war. If they do it right, they can keep a kingdom running and engaging in war for a very long time - perhaps even indefinitely - and thus please their god and increase their following.

You assume the aims of a god, never mind a god of slaughter, can be described in terms that are explicable to mortal people. Why is this?

The portfolio of slaughter, on the other hand, does not include any of the self-restraint which can be part of the war portfolio. Even when a follower of such a god manages to become a ruler, it is unlikely that his reign will last long - for engaging in large-scale slaughter is detrimental to long-term rule.

You assume a god of SLAUGHTER cares about long-term rule. Why is this?

Yet a ruler has the capability for engaging in large-scale slaughter, at the probable cost of his position.

People do stupid things all the time, even rulers. Just look at your newspaper.

Thus, a ruler who also follows the god of slaughter - unlike a follower of a war god - has to refrain from engaging in slaughter to a significant degree to maintain his rule in the long term. Would a cleric who really follows such a god do that? I doubt it.

Exactly. Who gives a jot about long-term rule? Live fast, die young, and leave millions of good-looking corpses.

Thus, it seems to me that followers of such a god would operate more like a hidden cult, acting behind the scenes - for while they might sometimes be able to become rulers in their own right, they are unlikely to do so for long. Thus, converting new recruits through conquest is unlikely under most circumstances.

Kill them all, but spare those who convert. It's really not that hard to understand.

 

[RFisher]

And enlarging the congregation is usually done by showing that the deity in question cares for their needs - even if the people aren't aware of these needs yet, in which case they need to be convinced of them.

I'd just like to point out that--historically--most religions aren't evangelistic. (Although, the state has often choosen to enforce conformity to the state-approved religion, but this has nothing to do with evangelism & little to do with religion.)

Not that I think Clerics or their faiths in the game need to be in any way historical...

 

[mxyzplk]

So first you need to have a role-play heavy type of campaign, or else it's hack and heal for you.

I was running a long term campaign, role play heavy, where one PC converted from being a fighter to a cleric (this was 2e so it wasn't as blase a change as it is nowadays). I sent him on a side solo adventure - I still remember it, I used Cleric's Challenge II (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_294_298&products_id=1362&).

It sent the PC to a small town without a real cleric currently. As a result, the locals started looking to him for such guidance. He was a little taken aback and a fish out of water for a while - teens who wanted him to marry them in secret, people wanting to confess their sins to him, people expecting him to mediate disputes. But he really took to it and his faith grew quickly as a result. One of the other PCs who wasn't a cleric but venerated the same god looked to him as a spiritual mentor after that.

So the answer is - have NPCs seek out the PC's opinion! As a holy person/priest, people will be looking to him for answers to all kinds of questions about life, love, death, etc. (depending on his deity).

PCs may or may not, depends on the level of RP you generally have. But it can be a very interesting and rewarding part of a priest's role in the game.

 

[RFisher]

It sent the PC to a small town without a real cleric currently. As a result, the locals started looking to him for such guidance. He was a little taken aback and a fish out of water for a while - teens who wanted him to marry them in secret, people wanting to confess their sins to him, people expecting him to mediate disputes. But he really took to it and his faith grew quickly as a result.

Having known not a few ministers, that sounds very much like real-life stories I've heard before!