D&D 5E Running T1-4 (ToEE) for the first time. Any advice?

[twizty]

As the topic says, I'm about to start DMing T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil for the first time. I've never played AD&D so my mechanics understanding is limited, but I've been reading a lot of other peoples notes that have already converted it. I've been playing 3.5e for 2-3 years and 5e for 2 years DMing 5e for about a year and a half.

My main concern is with doing this module the justice it seems it deserves? I see mixed reviews anywhere from its "it's one of the greatest of all time" to "it's alright, I don't see what all the hype is about". But I have a player that grew up on 2e and asked me to run this as its something he's been wanting to play for near 20 years now and knows nothing about.

I've spent the last 2-3 months reading up on the world of Greyhawk and reviewing the modules. Making notes upon notes. I definitely find the way this is organized in the book to be...interesting. Just enumerated lists of locations and who lives there and their day-to-day.

I feel the need to put this in a spoiler tag for anyone that hasn't played it and plans to. Don't want to potentially ruin anything.
[sblock]
Opening in Hommlet, it feels very sparse. I get that the main point is the moathouse and potentially uncovering spies within the village. Any recommendations running around in here? This is my groups first time running anything sandboxy, we usually play very linear games.

I think once things get flowing in Hommlet the plot or my means of direction will just start naturally flowing to the Nulb and the Temple. That's usually what happens for me at least. Just looking for any recommendations for running Hommlet.

I'm tempted to throw in little bits of misdirection in town should the party get on to the idea of spies. Have Rannos and Gremag start sending them in the direction of other townsfolk acting oddly. IE a husband sneaking off in the night for an affair type thing.

As I mentioned this is module is definitely oddly organized in the book and I've been doing a ton of rewriting so it makes sense for me. And a LOT of extra almost unneeded information about seemingly normal commoner townsfolk unless I'm missing something. Is this common of the older modules?

And holy sh*t! Why are there so many magic items?? +2 daggers, +1 swords, +1 shields, +2 armors. And every townsfolk has upwards of several platinum in savings?! There's a lot of fracking money in this town!
[/sblock]

I guess the question is are there any recommendations for running this in general. Any issues or holes other DM's have encountered while running it?

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I ran just the Village of Hommlet section a few years back and the PCs found plenty to do between the town and the moathouse. My biggest concern was when they decided to investigate Rannos and Gremag after the paladin’s detect evil dinged on them. I feared a TPK was imminent, but the PCs managed to survive through some smart play and luck.

 

[Luz]

I'm running this right now (for the third time, first time with 5e rules) and it is still a blast. If you haven't got it already, I highly recommend this for conversion notes:

http://newworldscoaching.ca/downloadable/toee.pdf

My advice is to take your time with it. The Village of Hommlet is so well crafted that you may not notice it upon just reading the module; at a glance it seems like a well fleshed-out town with some pretty standard low level monsters in the ruins nearby. Its how it unfolds when experienced in-play, the way the town comes to life so naturally and effortlessly pulls the PCs into the adventure. As with any module, players will only get what they put into it, so I would encourage you to give them reasons to explore the Village and familiarize themselves with the townsfolk. Maybe the rogue must go to the tanner to repair his leather armour, or the wizard seeks an apprenticeship with Rufus. Character Backgrounds can be very useful here and lead to various side quests with npcs, something I strongly advise you prep to help get the PCs up to at least 2nd level before tackling the moathouse.

This link has some excellent resources, check out under the "New Ideas and Concepts" heading for some good side quest ideas.

Regarding the sparse, simplicity of the Village and its commoners: this only helps make Hommlet a more believable setting, as well as allows its more colourful npcs (like Elmo, Burne and Rufus, etc.) to stand out so the PCs will be more inclined to interact with them. Its important for the PCs to establish connections with at least a few of these npcs; at some point if the agents of evil (such as Rannos and Gremag) are exposed then having some of the town leaders vouch for the party will definitely make life easier.

IMC, after the party finished the moathouse, they had to take all their loot to Hommlet to cash in. This meant a trip to the money changer, who saw all the excess gear the party dragged back from the moathouse so he advised they take it to the trading post. The party proceeded to the trading post where they met Rannos and Gremag, who were quick to casually ask where they got all the goods. The party, feeling like town heroes, then went on to explain in great detail their exploits at the moathouse, much to the hidden disdain of Rannos and Gremag. This led to a later assassination attempt on the party who, through some smart play and luck, managed to thwart. Rannos and Gremag managed to escape, but had been exposed and the PCs were able to capture one of their lackeys. Because they had earlier established a good rapport with some of the town leaders, they had an easier time gaining their support and trust. Now the PCs have learned more about the Temple and Nulb - which just so happens where Rannos and Gremag have fled.

Once you get the ball rolling, ToEE really creates an organic flow to the campaign. I've read many complain that the Temple itself is just a long slog, and if played non-stop like a megadungeon it probably is. But there are so many opportunities for intrigue in the entire adventure that it's likely the party will spend as much time outside as they do exploring the Temple. That's been my experience each time.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I would not run the adventure using 1e/2e rules. Simply put, the mechanics are needlessly cumbersome, and it's really not that difficult to run it with 5e rules. It's worth it to avoid THAC0.

I've run the town, the moathouse, and the temple grounds basically on the fly more or less, and it's not to difficult to do. The notes provided by Luz would be very useful, too. The most time consuming part for me was rebalancing for a part of 7 or 8, but I'd have to do that with T1-4 anyways.

 

[Shiroiken]

Assuming you're going to run 5E, rather than 1E, cut the non-magical treasure by at least half (I cut it by 90%, and it still felt high). That's because in 1E you got xp for recovered treasure (1gp - 1xp), and this was the primary method of gaining xp. Cut magical treasure to the bone, because what is rare or very rare now might have been fairly common in 1E. Also, I'd use the wands don't recharge optional rule, because that fits with the style of the day.

As for running the adventure, there are two ways to go about it. I started my campaign a year and a half ago with it, at level 3. They got to level 4 by the time they reached Nulb and the Temple (they quickly hit level 5 there). The early encounters didn't need much modification using this method (the final location of the Moathouse might be a bit tough, adjust as you see fit), but my group is very experienced (YGMV). You'll still need to make some modifications, especially near the end.

If you run it as originally intended, starting at level 1, you'll need to adjust every encounter to fit 5E's combat design (6-8 per day, most easy or normal difficulty, assume 2 short rests), otherwise you'll slaughter them. This adjustment can be tricky, since as a sandbox, they might go somewhere out of their normal level range. You can either adjust on the fly or try to warn them if they go somewhere too dangerous.

 

[Stormdale]

I’ve run T1 (-4) several times, in fact my current campaign is a mash up for T1, RttToEE (I used their verison of the Moathouse) and PoTA which I placed in Greyhawk.

Most enjoyable campaign was one where I linked all the pcs to the movers and shakers in Hommlet back in the early 2000s and using 3E rules (used T1-4 rather than the just released RttToEE version).
• Paladin was the daughter of Canoness Y’Dey and returned to Hommlet after learning her mother was missing.
• New priest (an evil NPC) and older brother of another PC came to take over the church of St Cuthbert and ended up causing lots of mayhem (and was a major thorn in the side of PCs and his younger brother)
• Another PC was the nephew of Burne.

I’ve tried to run the temple section T2-4 several times but found it was a bit of a grind and we got bored each time and the game ended up going in other directions. It needs a lot of planning/ thought from the DM to come alive and work properly. I know many people love it, I have always found it a grind fest. I still don’t like it. I may use elements of the 5E version or 3E versions yet but am more likely to have Rappan Athuk beneath the temple. I have heard of people using the Forgotten Temple of Tharzidun to replace T2-4 which I like for a shorter campaign.

As I said, in my 1e/3E/5E ToEE mash up I’m using elements of all 3 adventures. PoTA has some great locations—eg I reskinned Rivergard keep as an outpost of Iuz on the Velderveyr (sp) river disrupting river traffic and working with the pirates in Nulb.

T1 is still a great starting points for a campaign. Good luck with it.

Stormdale

 

[Jack Daniel]

I would not run the adventure using 1e/2e rules. Simply put, the mechanics are needlessly cumbersome, and it's really not that difficult to run it with 5e rules. It's worth it to avoid THAC0.


I've run the town, the moathouse, and the temple grounds basically on the fly more or less, and it's not to difficult to do. The notes provided by Luz would be very useful, too. The most time consuming part for me was rebalancing for a part of 7 or 8, but I'd have to do that with T1-4 anyways.

The adventure is designed for 1e. Encounters in the Temple especially have LOTS of enemies, in numbers that will trounce 5e characters.

Avoiding THAC0: Give your AD&D or OD&D characters an "Attack Bonus" equal to 21 minus their THAC0. Now the referee never needs to convert the Armor Classes. The chance to hit an opponent is equal to the target's AC + the attacker's hit bonus, in 20.

For example, if your THAC0 would normally be 17, that translates into an attack bonus of +4. If you roll to hit a target with AC 7, that's an 11-in-20 chance to score a hit. EZPZⲠ.

 

[twizty]

I'm running this right now (for the third time, first time with 5e rules) and it is still a blast. If you haven't got it already, I highly recommend this for conversion notes:

http://newworldscoaching.ca/downloadable/toee.pdf

My advice is to take your time with it. The Village of Hommlet is so well crafted that you may not notice it upon just reading the module; at a glance it seems like a well fleshed-out town with some pretty standard low level monsters in the ruins nearby. Its how it unfolds when experienced in-play, the way the town comes to life so naturally and effortlessly pulls the PCs into the adventure. As with any module, players will only get what they put into it, so I would encourage you to give them reasons to explore the Village and familiarize themselves with the townsfolk. Maybe the rogue must go to the tanner to repair his leather armour, or the wizard seeks an apprenticeship with Rufus. Character Backgrounds can be very useful here and lead to various side quests with npcs, something I strongly advise you prep to help get the PCs up to at least 2nd level before tackling the moathouse.

This link has some excellent resources, check out under the "New Ideas and Concepts" heading for some good side quest ideas.

Regarding the sparse, simplicity of the Village and its commoners: this only helps make Hommlet a more believable setting, as well as allows its more colourful npcs (like Elmo, Burne and Rufus, etc.) to stand out so the PCs will be more inclined to interact with them. Its important for the PCs to establish connections with at least a few of these npcs; at some point if the agents of evil (such as Rannos and Gremag) are exposed then having some of the town leaders vouch for the party will definitely make life easier.

IMC, after the party finished the moathouse, they had to take all their loot to Hommlet to cash in. This meant a trip to the money changer, who saw all the excess gear the party dragged back from the moathouse so he advised they take it to the trading post. The party proceeded to the trading post where they met Rannos and Gremag, who were quick to casually ask where they got all the goods. The party, feeling like town heroes, then went on to explain in great detail their exploits at the moathouse, much to the hidden disdain of Rannos and Gremag. This led to a later assassination attempt on the party who, through some smart play and luck, managed to thwart. Rannos and Gremag managed to escape, but had been exposed and the PCs were able to capture one of their lackeys. Because they had earlier established a good rapport with some of the town leaders, they had an easier time gaining their support and trust. Now the PCs have learned more about the Temple and Nulb - which just so happens where Rannos and Gremag have fled.

Once you get the ball rolling, ToEE really creates an organic flow to the campaign. I've read many complain that the Temple itself is just a long slog, and if played non-stop like a megadungeon it probably is. But there are so many opportunities for intrigue in the entire adventure that it's likely the party will spend as much time outside as they do exploring the Temple. That's been my experience each time.

Definitely appreciate all the feedback.

Those are the exact notes I've been leaning heavily on. What you say of Hommlet makes complete sense, it could be I'm concerned for no reason. This is a reformation of my original 5e group, which broke up due to a few players being overtly bad at everything. It was constant hand holding until I finally said screw it, training wheels are off and ended up killing them 3 times (I let them come back with new characters) because they didn't get it. This new group could do much better. They're more into the RP perspective than murderhobo.

Something else I'm curious about what others have done. The intro mentions the players should be broke and worn down when entering Hommlet. I debated staging a bunch of robbers on the road in to rough them up and take most of their coin. Kind of a means of getting them to invest in the town. Find some side work at the tavern, help some of the farmers out with heavy lifting, work with the smithy's. Try to make some coin in town so they can get back on their feet. I go by the book on gear usually. Take what your class offers or roll your gold and buy it.

This organic flow is what I'm hoping for. I'm pretty sure Hommlet will just work once they get there, the gears will just start turning on their own. I definitely plan to do a lot of work with the Temple itself, I don't want it to turn into a long slog as you say. I'd love to see them use subterfuge or some other means to turn the varying factions within even more against each other. Maybe throw a PC's younger sibling in the mix, kidnapped by pirates, turned by the cult, no working against their brother/sister in the party.

This is definitely helping get the ideas flowing for this.

 

[werecorpse]

IME the major problem with the actual temple is that the Players often don't understand what is going on or how to use the information they do have. The result is they tend to take the most tried and true approach of attacking and looting what they come across. This works fine but becomes a grind. I suggest finding ways to let them find out things such as that different cults are feuding, the importance of the orb of death and how it works, which elemental glyphs lead to nodes (as opposed to planes) etc. otherwise it's just a big random dungeon bash.
Also some of the bad guys plots seem odd. You need to figure them out.
What & who is Lareths interaction with the main temple - which cult, why?
Who put Thrommel there, why? Do the players get any foreshadowing about Thrommel?
Why does the guy with the orb of death not seek to bust out Zuggtmoy? Or some Giants.
What is the plan of the various elemental cults - and the over cult - do the elemental cults hate each other so much they will hire the PC's? How will the over cult react.

When I ran it I made the orb of death be found by the PC's in a treasure away from the temple, having been taken by a loyal cultist who fled when the temple fell after the battle,of Emridy Meadows. They knew it was the key to some hidden parts of the ruined temple. They also beleived that the cultists claimed rsponsibilith for Thrommels disappearance ( can't recall how) so they had a purpose in seeking to solve the hidden parts of the temple etc

 

[wwanno]

If you run the temple like a simple dungeon where players enter, kill everything, and run away with the treasures, it will become boring soon.

Play the videogame (I know it may sound strange), it has many quests and ideas in it, that will let your players infiltrate the temple ranks and put the factions at each other's throat.

This will make the game more remarkable.

- My players entered the temple from the tower secret passage.
- They met and fought the wizard of the third level (an agent of Lolth who tries to slow down Hedrak, hiding the skull in hope to size enough power in the temple to control it and reconsacrate it to Lolth), and he introduced them to Kelno (the air priest).
- They obeyed the orders of Kelno (the air priest), and desacrated the earth temple with some unholy water while they were wearing the water temple tunics.
- This led to a retorsion, and while the earth temple was moving against the water one, the PCs ransacked the earth temple.
- One of the PCs took the tunic of the earth temple and, after another PCs was nominated Kelno's second in command, used it to command the earth elementals to kill Kelno who was lired to the earth temple.
- So two PCs were now wearing the high priests tunic, and they were summoned by Hendrak to swear him loyalty.

All these things would not happen if the PCs think they can storm the temple entering from the front door.

Just portray it as an impossible task due to the forces inside the temple itself.

This can be far more than hack and slash.

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