Rust Monster vs Iron Golem

[Drew]

Well, I am the DM, but the world in question is Greyhawk. This isn't just some random Iron Golem we're talking about. This is the Terrible Iron Golem in Maure Castle...the nigh unkillable baddie that brought down elminster. I can't "rule that there are no rust monsters" in Greyhawk. That's just silly.

Well, many monsters have an Achilles' heal. If you know its weakness and can be prepared for it, many, many creatures are not hard to deal with.

I guess my problem is I don't like monsters that can just be "poof" killed. Its not a weakness, its a friggin' self destruct button. We're not talking about a player using lightning to slow the thing down. Besides the (now fixed) Rakshasa, what other monsters have an antithesis that just whipes them out?

Sort of like the old example from 2nd ed of one of the (then) iconic wizards casting an illusion; she can do one of a wolf, which she's familiar with, or say a beholder... which she has no idea what the look like, how they function or what they do other than rumors and fairy tales. If she does the illusion of the beholder, anyone who know what beholders are really like will see thru the illusion in an instant, because they know it's wrong.

I don't know if that's a very good anology. We're not talking about someone creating an image from memory, we're talking about actually metamorphasizing into a rust monster. Granted, you can't turn into some really obscure monster that you've never heard of or encountered, but a rust monster? They have to be at least as common as, say, a zebra. Know anybody who has never heard of a zebra?

I'm not trying to screw the player here, which what I'd be doing if I just told him that, for some reason, his 13th level psion has never heard of rust monsters. I want the big encounter with the super-golem to be a fun battle, not a single round one touch kill.

Well, those're the rules. Up until 3.5 edition, Rakshasas were slain instantly by any hit from a blessed crossbow bolt. The iron golem has the same weakness, but instead to rust monsters.

Of course, your GM can always rule that rust monsters don't exist or haven't been found in his world. You don't have to use everything in the core books, especially not from the monstrous manual. (Bodaks, ugh)

It sucks that the rules are kind of against me here, but I don't think its by design. I just don't think it ever occured to the designers that this bizarre situation would come up. The rusting grasp spell specifically mentioned in the golem's entry doesn't totally destroy the monster, no questions asked. Why should the rust monster? And they changed the Rakshasa thing, so I don't see how that's relevant here.

Its seems that I'll have to just rule some arbitrary damage if they try this trick.

 

[Drew]

As for dealing with the Rust touch, perhaps treat it as disintegration? They both affect 10' cubes. 10d6 (2d6 per HD) points of damage, Reflex save for half?

By the way, unless Metamorphosis has been errata'ed:



AR

That's fairly elegant. I might go with that.

By the way, Metamorphosis says: "You also gain all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form..."

The rust ability is listed under special attacks as an EX ability.

 

[Vrecknidj]

You could always argue that the iron golem is somehow supernaturally aware (I haven't read the module) and argue that it's always beginning every encounter with a Readied action of this sort: if I detect a rust monster, then I attack it, and I attack it before it attacks me if possible.

Also, you could argue that the rust monster's rusting power crumbles one of the iron golem's legs, and then the iron golem falls on the rust monster doing 20d6 crushing damage. (After all, one reading of 10-foot cube is 10 cubic feet, and that's a cube of only about 2' 2" to a side.)

As far as actual rules go, just say that the power is Su instead of Ex and then deny it to the player.

Dave

 

[Sejs]

They have to be at least as common as, say, a zebra. Know anybody who has never heard of a zebra?

The difference being between ever having heard of one, versus actually knowing what they're like.


Without looking up anything, right off the cuff - what size is a zebra? What is its head like? What shape are its ears? Does it have split hooves, or solid ones? Does it have a brush tail, or a cord-like tail with a poof on the end? How does it move - does it gallop like a horse, or spring like an antelope? Where is its heart located? How many stomachs does it have? How would a zebra attack - would it rear up, or kick?

Things like that.

 

[frankthedm]

I think in previous editions, it took 9th level magic to safely turn into a rust monster and have the rusting.

I had been thinking about a great iron golem that spewed great sprays of magical oil/grease with non rusting properties rather than a poison cloud.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Personally I wouldn't screw with your players that way. Chances are they know the rules at least as well as you do and will know that you nerfed their plan arbitarily.

Think about other options. There are other golems you could use against them and a simple illusion could make it seem to be an Iron Golem. I personally like the Lead or Copper Golem from Scarred Lands. I don't remember off the top of my head if they are vulnerable to rust. I'd go with a Psion Killer "Crystal" Golem that has an illusion on it to trick the party into believing they are fighting a Iron Golem. They will understand that you tricked them but still dealt with them fairly. If you nerf their ace in the hole by changing rules to suit you they may start looking for another DM (I would).

Edit: Better yet, what if the party arrives... prepared to fight the Iron Golem only to find out that it has been destroyed already and the thing that destroyed it is now waiting for them.

 

[Sejs]

Edit: Better yet, what if the party arrives... prepared to fight the Iron Golem only to find out that it has been destroyed already and the thing that destroyed it is now waiting for them

An advanced 24 HD huge half-dragon rust monster of legend, accompanied by a swarm of tiny-size fiendish umbral rust monsters that hide in the walls and ceiling when they're not swarming all over some poor schmuck!

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

An advanced 24 HD huge half-dragon rust monster of legend, accompanied by a swarm of tiny-size fiendish umbral rust monsters that hide in the walls and ceiling when they're not swarming all over some poor schmuck!

...and then a Winged Kobold in charge of all of them!

 

[Sejs]

...and then a Winged Kobold in charge of all of them!

Well, yeah. The winged kobold is the brains of the operation, after all.

 

[UltimaGabe]

The rusting grasp spell specifically mentioned in the golem's entry doesn't totally destroy the monster, no questions asked. Why should the rust monster?

Because the Rusting Grasp spell specifically deals damage to metal creatures rather than killing them outright. The Rust Monster, however, does not.

Anyway, just one clarification- you mentioned this was a big bad Iron Golem in Greyhawk. And yet you said it beat Elminster. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Elminster in Faerun?