The Souljourner
First Post
Can someone explain to me how saga skills work and how that's likely to translate to 4e? I don't have Saga, and don't really want to buy it just to get a 4e preview.
Saga skills?
- Thread starter The Souljourner
- Start date
1) The Saga skill list is consolidated considerably relatively to 'standard' d20 (D&D 3.5 / d20 Modern / Star Wars d20 Revised ).
2) Each class gets a certain base number of 'trained' skills, ranging from 1 (nonheroic) to 6 (noble), which must be selected from your class skill list.
3) You can get additional trained skills based on your intellegince modifier, being human, or by taking the Skill Training feat; these may taken from the class skills of any classes you have.
4) Most skills have some untrained uses, and some trained only uses.
5) Your modifier for untrained skills is 1/2 level + ability modifier. Your modifier for trained skills is 1/2 level + ability modifier + 5.
6) You can take the Skill Focus feat on a trained skill to get an additional +5.
7) No feats, talents, or class abilities grant bonuses to a specific skill.
8) There are no synergy effects.
9) In fact, other than teamwork, equipment, and the Scoundrel's Fool's Luck talent (which lets you spend a Force Point to get a bonus to all skills for a short time), there aren't any ways to increase skill modifiers.
2) Each class gets a certain base number of 'trained' skills, ranging from 1 (nonheroic) to 6 (noble), which must be selected from your class skill list.
3) You can get additional trained skills based on your intellegince modifier, being human, or by taking the Skill Training feat; these may taken from the class skills of any classes you have.
4) Most skills have some untrained uses, and some trained only uses.
5) Your modifier for untrained skills is 1/2 level + ability modifier. Your modifier for trained skills is 1/2 level + ability modifier + 5.
6) You can take the Skill Focus feat on a trained skill to get an additional +5.
7) No feats, talents, or class abilities grant bonuses to a specific skill.
8) There are no synergy effects.
9) In fact, other than teamwork, equipment, and the Scoundrel's Fool's Luck talent (which lets you spend a Force Point to get a bonus to all skills for a short time), there aren't any ways to increase skill modifiers.
DrSpunj
Explorer
I'd been thinking about picking up the Saga book to look at the mechanics for awhile now, and with the 4e announcement I grabbed it at B&N this weekend. I've only glanced at the skills chapter but I can give you a bit of an overview (though IDHMBIFOM).
The 5 classes each have a number of trained skills (ranging from 3-6 I think, plus Int bonus) they can choose from their class skill list.
ALL skills, trained & untrained, have skill modifiers equal to 1/2 level (rounded down) plus the relevant Ability Mod (IIRC). If you're trained, you get a flat +5 bonus on top of that.
That's it. No skill points, no skill ranks, no synergy bonuses, nothing. Some skills can still only be used if trained.
Again, I only skimmed the list, but compared to 3.5e, the skill list is shorter. There's only Perception instead of Spot & Listen, Stealth instead of Move Silently & Hide. I remember Climb, Jump & Tumble, along with Ride, plus Pilot. Deception instead of Bluff (which may also incorporate sleight of hand stuff?). Knowledge was still a list that you selected areas from individually.
Hopefully if I've misremembered some particulars someone can quickly correct me. I'm not playing Star Wars at all, and in my group we're playing a primarily IH-game with the AE magic system instead of 3.5e, so I'm basically just mining SW Sage edition for whatever looks better. As always, YMMV.
Thanks.
The 5 classes each have a number of trained skills (ranging from 3-6 I think, plus Int bonus) they can choose from their class skill list.
ALL skills, trained & untrained, have skill modifiers equal to 1/2 level (rounded down) plus the relevant Ability Mod (IIRC). If you're trained, you get a flat +5 bonus on top of that.
That's it. No skill points, no skill ranks, no synergy bonuses, nothing. Some skills can still only be used if trained.
Again, I only skimmed the list, but compared to 3.5e, the skill list is shorter. There's only Perception instead of Spot & Listen, Stealth instead of Move Silently & Hide. I remember Climb, Jump & Tumble, along with Ride, plus Pilot. Deception instead of Bluff (which may also incorporate sleight of hand stuff?). Knowledge was still a list that you selected areas from individually.
Hopefully if I've misremembered some particulars someone can quickly correct me. I'm not playing Star Wars at all, and in my group we're playing a primarily IH-game with the AE magic system instead of 3.5e, so I'm basically just mining SW Sage edition for whatever looks better. As always, YMMV.
Thanks.
You can read the SWSE Preview about skills here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/SagaPreview2
-NetNomad
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/SagaPreview2
-NetNomad
The Souljourner
First Post
Ok, so now the $10,000 question - how do mutliclass characters work?
If I take a level of fighter as level 1 and the rest as rogue, am I screwed? How about vice versa?
That's the one thing I couldn't figure out about a system like that.
-Nate
If I take a level of fighter as level 1 and the rest as rogue, am I screwed? How about vice versa?
That's the one thing I couldn't figure out about a system like that.
-Nate
Jim DelRosso
First Post
The Souljourner said:
Well, the skill system is just one thing that's changed. In SWSE, PCs get triple HP at first level, so taking a class with a high hit die first has a big impact. Secondly, rather than just handing out "proficient with all martial weapons" and the like, characters get a set of bonus feats from their class at first level, but when they multiclass they only get to pick up one of those feats for "free" from the new class. From what I can see, that makes taking the class with the most Trained skills first a lot less of a no-brainer: there are multiple factors to consider.
(A very common house rule I've heard of is allowing a multiclasser to take Skill Training for one of the new class's skills in place of the bonus feat from the new class. Makes sense to me, and should balance out.)
Aust Diamondew
First Post
When you multiclass to a second class you choose to learn 1 of their starting feats, starting feats are usually proficiency feats.
So if you started fighter and went rogue you'd have more weapon and armor proficiency feats but fewer skills trained.
Vice versa if you started fighter and went rogue.
I think it'd be a reasonable house rule in SWSE to allow when multiclassing to learn a trained skill off the second class's skill list instead of selecting one of their starting feats to learn.
So if you started fighter and went rogue you'd have more weapon and armor proficiency feats but fewer skills trained.
Vice versa if you started fighter and went rogue.
I think it'd be a reasonable house rule in SWSE to allow when multiclassing to learn a trained skill off the second class's skill list instead of selecting one of their starting feats to learn.
The Souljourner said:
If you multiclass, all your class's class skills are now class skills for you (so a Scoundrel/Soldier has access to Scoundrel class skills and Soldier class skills). If you want to pick up some Scoundrel-ish skills after starting as a Soldier, you have to spend a feat on it (unless your intelligence increases enough to give you a higher Int bonus).
So if a fighter roughly corresponds to soldier, and rogue roughly corresponds to scoundrel, then if you start as a fighter and multiclass to rogue, you'll have to use feats to pick up scoundrel-type skills, but you'll start with more hit points and knowing how to use more weapons and armor. If you start as a rogue, you'll have more skills for free, but you'll have fewer hit points and you'll have to spend feats to learn how to use some types of weapons and armor.
So you're not screwed either way; you're just paying for things at different times.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Those seem like really large modifiers (Skill Focus = +5). What does that do to in-game DC's? It seems like you could have modifiers of +10 to +15 for some skills at relatively low levels.
