Satyr - An excuse for rape, or an interesting creature?

[Glyfair]

That said, I wouldn't run a scenario where someone got a disease and died if the player's mother was suffering through cancer, for instance. Part of a fantasy role-playing game is escapism, and I think it's usually a good idea to back off of certain issues when the time is right.

Which adds another issue to look at from a gaming perspective. Assuming you are gaming with friends, it's reasonably likely you will know that they have dealt with violence or torture (from a first or second person standpoint). It's reasonably unlikely you will know if they have dealt with rape. Rape victims are typically reluctant to talk about it, and people close to them are reluctant to share with people not close to the victims.

The why is irrelevant. Rape has a good chance of squicking people out. Violence doesn't. As a DM that's all you need to know to improve your game.

QFT.

 

[der_kluge]

Just to steer this freight train back onto some semblance of a track - the topic here specifically regards the Satyr (or other types of sexual creatures).

Given the nature of these creatures - do the have an appropriate place in the game? Satyrs, and even Succubi or Erinyes, or Cambion demons all are very "sexual' in nature - at least at how I see them.

I'd like to see more ideas from people on how to creatively use these creatures that don't necessarily involve acts of a sexual nature.


And for Christ's sake - let's stop trying to figure out whether rape or murder or torture is worth than the other. Down that way lies insanity.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

That last---at least---is patently untrue. The SRD clearly states that if a succubus can't lure a mortal into an act of passion, she can make a grapple check to drain the level anyway.

True, but it doesn't say make a grapple check and force an "act of passion" on them. I would have the Succubus grapple the victim and use her kiss to drain the level.

 

[Oryan77]

What would you have done if all the male PCs were incapacitated and the two female PCs both failed their charm saves? By your own account - that Satyr was a rapist. Would you have *not* done the act despite the creature's nature?

The monster description says they like to cast sleep & rob them or cast charm and seduce them. It doesn't say they like to cast sleep and rape them (although you could play it like that if you wanted to I guess).

Satyrs like to seduce or steal from people. So I kept that in mind. I had actually planned to rob the PCs but it didn't work out that way when I ran the scenario.

The way I look at it, it would be very hard to successfully rape someone when there's 3 other enemies around. I would think the Satyr wants to receive the affection in return, so I don't imagine Satyrs wanting to just rape a sleeping woman, they like to romance them...so he tried seducing the women. Charming them just makes them easier to seduce/rape.

In my scenario, he wouldn't just have sex with a charmed PC right in front of other charmed PCs...but he would love to make out with her (which he did) and try to lure her away. If everyone was charmed and he managed to lure her away, I would have had some travelers intervene and chase the Satyr away. In your case, I would have had a wandering creature raid the camp and had the Satyr run for his life...but he would steal an item or two before fleeing. That would still be playing the Satyr correctly (as a thief).

I would be trying to think of every way possible not to rape her rather than why he should be able to rape her. Even if it meant him talking the PC into leaving camp with him (so he can have sex with her in private) and then a wandering monster attacks the Satyr & the PC while they are alone...killing the Satyr in the process.

A player isn't going to complain about a random event happening (random monster) that saves them from being raped. I'd think it was a little strange if a player said, "That was lame, the Satyr should have raped my PC".

 

[der_kluge]

Seriously - debating whether or not falling off a cliff is worse than having a big rock land on you seems pointless and weird. How about instead of trying to rank the various injustices of the world on a point scale, the thread be more about how to use satyrs in a way that bypass the particular issues that the OP had? Types of encounters that avoid sexual violence - since that was the OPs objection. The rest of it, IMO, is just nonsense - and yes it is all subjective and saying otherwise doesn't change that.

Good lord, it's like we share the same mind.

 

[Desdichado]

Given the nature of these creatures - do the have an appropriate place in the game? Satyrs, and even Succubi or Erinyes, or Cambion demons all are very "sexual' in nature - at least at how I see them.

I'd like to see more ideas from people on how to creatively use these creatures that don't necessarily involve acts of a sexual nature.

The easiest is using the promise of sexual favors, charm, seduction, etc. but then simply trying to kill them instead. Maybe it's a little darker (maybe, but I'm not trying to rate how "dark" various bad things happening to PC's is) but especially for a demon, that's not an inappropriate thing if it is. I've always kinda seen special abilities in D&D as a prelude to making it easier for the monster to kill you, not have sex with you.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Well, Dr. Awkward is right about Centaurs in Greek Mythology. Yet Chiron was notable for his ability to heal. Similarly, I used one satyr as an oracle. You can use any element of Greek Mythology with satyrs, and it will seem right.

Create an Enkidu-like Satyr, rampaging through the countryside, and give him the gift of the Nemedian Lion (DR 20/Bludgeoning) and have the PCs track him. Encounter seems right. Have the satyrs play the part of mythological harpies, befouling a king's food as a punishment from the gods. Hey, it could work. There are tons of Greek stories that you could use, swapping satyrs in for other characters, that would work just as well.

Go further afield, and have a satyr play Cyrano de Bergerac to a PC Roxane or Christian de Neuvillette.

Or just say, "Satyrs represent wild nature, abandon, revel, delight, and panic." Then imagine what satyrs are like who represent a huricane, or a storm. Throw in the proper setting elements, use some templates, and Hey Presto! you have a cool satyr encounter that has little to do with sex. Satyrs that are as liable to tear you to pieces as to waggle their nether parts at you could make a good encounter.

Seriously, imagine this scene: There is a storm brewing. The PCs are in the forest, hunting something nasty. Of course, they are going to just hunker down and wait out the storm, then continue the hunt when it has passed. But the satyrs pipe to panic them, and in their fear they flee willy-nilly into the woods, facing hazards of wilderness and storm, and having all sorts of fun encounters while the storm rages. And then, with the storm passed, they discover that what they once were hunting is now hunting them, and they are no longer together......

Or just say, "Satyrs represent the what comes of the grape, for good or ill" and play them like drunks, some very forward (but not necessarily very capable at the moment), others bringing comfort, and still others leading PCs to do things that inhibition would normally prevent them from doing (which may or may not be sexual, but could be great fun for the PCs if they can tweak the Duke's nose and get away with it by blaming the satyrs).

You could play up the devilish look of satyrs, and make them great tempters of mortals.

Like most monsters, satyrs can be used in many ways, and still retain their primary "satyr" qualities.

 

[Oryan77]

Subjectivity aside, if you believe rape is the worst thing that can happen to a person you are 100% wrong.

No, I'm pretty positive that I believe a rape is the worst thing to happen to a person. Do you know something about my beliefs that I don't?

No, it isn't. When you are raped, you have a chance at recovering from that and leading a good life in the end.

I honestly don't care what anyone says when comparing rape to anything else and I won't argue pointless comparisons. I believe it's the worst thing to happen to a person and I'm neither a woman nor have I ever been raped. It's just something that strikes a nerve in me and pisses me off more than other atrocities. Telling me I'm wrong is just ignorant and disrespectful to rape victims. I don't really see the point of the debate. :\

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

How have you used the Satyr in your game? Personally, I'd much rather see the Satyr replaced with the Faun - the Roman version, and the one represented in the movie Pan's Labyrinth.

How is the faun different? I've never heard this before, but I certainly agree that a creature who is involved in rape in about half the times it's mentioned in myth is kind of an odd choice for a core monster.

 

[der_kluge]

How is the faun different? I've never heard this before, but I certainly agree that a creature who is involved in rape in about half the times it's mentioned in myth is kind of an odd choice for a core monster.

Well, finally - someone agrees with me. *whew*

Faun - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faun
edit: I should point out that the Satyr page has some images that might be considered NWS.
Satyr - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyr


Despite the fact that the Romans merged the Faun and Satyr legends, I think Satyr tends to imply more sexuality than the Faun does. I'd rather see Satyr be more like that which was in Pan's Labyrinth - an enigmatic intelligent fey, rather than a drunken hypersexual deviant.

I think IMC, I'll probably replace Satyr with Faun, but leave them mechanically the same. Odd as it sounds, I think it works a little better for me.