Satyr - An excuse for rape, or an interesting creature?

[Lonely Tylenol]

The difference between rape, torture, and murder is that while it is extremely unlikely that your players have been tortured, and obviously haven't been murdered, there's a pretty good chance that a female player has been raped, or that any player's girlfriend, sister, mother, wife, or daughter has been. It hits too close to home. People are fairly desensitized to violence, because it's usually not a personal experience for them. It happens on TV, or to some people somewhere. Rape is personal, it's experienced as personal, and it affects individuals.

The other thing to remember is that there's a difference between rape happening to an NPC, perhaps someone for whom the PCs are attempting to seek revenge, or as part of a backstory, and rape happening to a PC. The distinction between a player and character is fuzzy. We almost always use the first person when describing our characters. Things that happen to our characters happen to us, vicariously. This is why we roleplay. We want to be larger-than-life, and these games allow it. Fantasy roleplaying implies a certain level of immersion. When something like rape happens, it happens vicariously just as much as when heroism happens. If you're sensitive to the issue, and many people are, it is liable to push some buttons that really shouldn't be pushed, especially in front of an audience. You sort of have to wonder why a DM would include something like that in a fantasy scenario.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

For that matter - let's not talk about Satyr - let's reverse the coin and talk about the Succubus. This is a creature's whose sole purpose is to rape men and steal their levels. Now, most men haven't been raped. So, most people don't have a problem with this creature. Am I "having a failure of imagination" when I rape a female PC with a cambion demon, or rape a male PC with a Succubus? Isn't the result the same?

It is the same thing, but as with the Satyr, nothing makes you have to rape anyone with the Succcubus. It is an "act of passion" or a kiss that causes the level drain. That leaves a lot of room for interpretation by the DM, and a good DM should know his or her group and play according to what would be entertaining for them. If your group enjoys the dark, shocking aspects of evil creatures then go for it. If they don't then use the demons as creatures that desire the life energy of the PCs over the carnal aspects.

Edit: The way the Succubus is worded in the SRD, it has to lure a mortal into an act of passion. That does not mean rape at all to me, it means tricking them into succumbing willingly.

 

[frankthedm]

Wait - I thought murder was worse than rape. Damnit, I've lost my slide-rule!!

Murder generally has the the person's body feeding worms while their soul goes off to where it belongs. I'll leave the debate between that and rape to others.

Previous editions of D&D and most other instances of life force feeding say that life force being consumed IS the soul. When you start messing with that, yes that is evil beyond what we know in this mundane world.

 

[Glyfair]

For that matter - let's not talk about Satyr - let's reverse the coin and talk about the Succubus. This is a creature's whose sole purpose is to rape men and steal their levels.

Actually, the theme of the succubus is seduction, not rape. At least from a mythological standpoint.

 

[kenmarable]

I refuse to accept that there are certain situations where you are forced to rape a PC.

Same here.

Honestly, I never knew that about the origins of the satyrs and wouldn't think of that right even looking at their abilities.

You gotta remember that a DM is never forced to do something. They control everything in the world. Satyrs don't have to be played that way. Or something could prevent it from doing that, or any of a number of explanations of why it wouldn't happen.

DMs are never forced to do anything.

 

[Vorput]

The difference between rape, torture, and murder is that while it is extremely unlikely that your players have been tortured, and obviously haven't been murdered, there's a pretty good chance that a female player has been raped, or that any player's girlfriend, sister, mother, wife, or daughter has been. It hits too close to home. People are fairly desensitized to violence, because it's usually not a personal experience for them. It happens on TV, or to some people somewhere. Rape is personal, it's experienced as personal, and it affects individuals.

True... but there's also a good chance one of them has suffered a mugging (yet we still use bandits doing ambushes), someone dying from cancer (yet D&D still uses diseases), something they know being assaulted (yet attacking happens all the time), someone they know being murdered (yet NPCs, and sometimes PCs, die every session), etc.

Not sure why rape should be on a different plateau.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I think this is very much debatable; your interpretation is the first I've ever heard that Satyrs = Rapists. Here are some debating points:

Actually, if I recall correctly, it was usually the centaurs that were the rapists. It's the horse in them; it makes them all bestial and uncivilized.

 

[zen_hydra]

I'm not going to pretend rape doesn't exist in my world, but I would never actually rape a character. That's the worst thing to happen to a human being and I'd rather kill off a character than have an NPC rape them.

Subjectivity aside, if you believe rape is the worst thing that can happen to a person you are 100% wrong.

 

[Desdichado]

Edit: The way the Succubus is worded in the SRD, it has to lure a mortal into an act of passion. That does not mean rape at all to me, it means tricking them into succumbing willingly.

That last---at least---is patently untrue. The SRD clearly states that if a succubus can't lure a mortal into an act of passion, she can make a grapple check to drain the level anyway.

 

[gizmo33]

Subjectivity aside, if you believe rape is the worst thing that can happen to a person you are 100% wrong.

Subjectivity aside, all of my opinions are always 100% correct. For example - the best use of this thread is to talk about encounters that involve satyrs that DMs will want to run. Whether or not crushing your enemies is better than the wind in your hair is best left to the sages.