Satyr - An excuse for rape, or an interesting creature?

[Desdichado]

My scenario was not unlike this - except in mine, everyone kept failing ALL their saves. As I mentioned just above - I remember now that I actually *did* give the female a save. More than one actually - to the point that the "rules lawyer" in the group joked that she was "going to continue to get saves until she finally made one!", and it was at that point that I finally let the encounter run its course.

Well, as has been pointed out, running it's course does not have to equal rape. There are other alternatives that could just as easily have been in keeping with the satyr's nature.

I'm kinda in line with the group here who suggest that the satyr is a pretty lousy monster. If the result of the encounter going badly is PC rape, then this thread demonstrates that that's problematic for a large number of gamers. If it ends in the satyr kidnapping a PC and trying to woo her in his secluded glen---personally I think that's kinda silly and lame. So I guess I'm saying I probably wouldn't ever use the satyr as is. I could maybe use the stats with some other flavor and name, but not as is.

Then again, I like the vibe of some fey that are mercurial, whimsical, fickle and scary as hell. IMO, none of the standard D&D fey fit that bill very well.

 

[Mark]

IMO, rape has no part in the game (at least as a threat to PCs).

That's how I feel regarding games I DM. At most I might vaguely allude to it as having been a part of some off-screen, past tense NPC situation. Even that might need some out of game prefacing with the players.

 

[Vorput]

For that matter - let's not talk about Satyr - let's reverse the coin and talk about the Succubus. This is a creature's whose sole purpose is to rape men and steal their levels. Now, most men haven't been raped. So, most people don't have a problem with this creature. Am I "having a failure of imagination" when I rape a female PC with a cambion demon, or rape a male PC with a Succubus? Isn't the result the same?

That's a very worthwhile point.

 

[JustKim]

For that matter, I'm also not really thrilled with your ability to ignore the meat of my post and simply nitpick a trivial statement.

I have not felt the need to address anything else you've said, primarily because this is not something I'm interested in arguing about. One of the things you said struck me, and I responded to it. I did not fail to notice that your other posts don't condone rape in-game, but I find people often say seemingly conflicting things when empassioned on the internet. This is certainly one of those cases.

I was not trying to put words in your mouth, and I'd appreciate it if you would stop questioning my ability to read.

 

[Desdichado]

For that matter - let's not talk about Satyr - let's reverse the coin and talk about the Succubus. This is a creature's whose sole purpose is to rape men and steal their levels. Now, most men haven't been raped. So, most people don't have a problem with this creature. Am I "having a failure of imagination" when I rape a female PC with a cambion demon, or rape a male PC with a Succubus? Isn't the result the same?

Oooh, now you're getting into meaty discussion-land!

That said, I think you've overplayed the succubus. According the rules, the succubus doesn't have to rape a victim, it just has to kiss him. Or her. So again, we're getting into DM interpretation of what the critter should do, not something that's explicitly stated by the rules; same problem as with the satyr.

And in that kind of discussion the result will always be the same. If you introduce rape of a PC into the game, that's your problem. The fact that the mythological basis for the creature being used was often depicting raping innocent victims is beside the point---the rules have specifically backed off from that into something less confrontational (from a player perspective, not a character one.)

 

[der_kluge]

Well, as has been pointed out, running it's course does not have to equal rape. There are other alternatives that could just as easily have been in keeping with the satyr's nature.

I'm kinda in line with the group here who suggest that the satyr is a pretty lousy monster. If the result of the encounter going badly is PC rape, then this thread demonstrates that that's problematic for a large number of gamers. If it ends in the satyr kidnapping a PC and trying to woo her in his secluded glen---personally I think that's kinda silly and lame. So I guess I'm saying I probably wouldn't ever use the satyr as is. I could maybe use the stats with some other flavor and name, but not as is.

Then again, I like the vibe of some fey that are mercurial, whimsical, fickle and scary as hell. IMO, none of the standard D&D fey fit that bill very well.

And some well-mannered, creative folks have given me some great ideas on how I could use the Satyr (as a very interesting encounter) in the future. You know who you are. I thank you for being on-topic and helpful.

 

[gizmo33]

I'd like to have some idea as a DM what any given monster's motivation would be in an encounter (in case it's rolled on a wandering monster table). A satyr's involvement in sexual issues doesn't mandate IMO that it be involved in anything violent or weird (by my standards). I think this thread, in a round-about way, starts to address the concerns of the OP by suggesting some motivations and encounters that involve satyrs that are more appropriate to most people's DnD game.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

Hmm. The succubus does actually make for a much more interesting discussion. While people be offended if the succubus gets a little nasty with one of the males - while he sleeps?

Will the same group be as easy going when the satyr does the same thing with a female?

 

[frankthedm]

For that matter - let's not talk about Satyr - let's reverse the coin and talk about the Succubus. This is a creature's whose sole purpose is to rape men and steal their levels. Now, most men haven't been raped. So, most people don't have a problem with this creature. Am I "having a failure of imagination" when I rape a female PC with a cambion demon, or rape a male PC with a Succubus? Isn't the result the same?

Succubi don't usally rape men in D&D. They devour life force, possibly damning their vicims to undeath as wights. That is worse than rape.

 

[der_kluge]

Succubi don't usally rape men in D&D. They devour life force, possibly damning their vicims to undeath as wights. That is worse than rape.

Wait - I thought murder was worse than rape. Damnit, I've lost my slide-rule!!