[Savage Species]Half-ogre overpowered??

[Pseudonym]

How many have actually seen a half-ogre in play? The book has only been released for a week or so. I'm thinking that the half-ogre is getting the same treatment as the monk; people proclaim it "broken" on paper when in actual play its not nearly as bad as it first appears.

 

[Victim]

How many have actually seen a half-ogre in play? The book has only been released for a week or so. I'm thinking that the half-ogre is getting the same treatment as the monk; people proclaim it "broken" on paper when in actual play its not nearly as bad as it first appears.

People said the monk was broken before the complete system was released. The fact that fighters get big magic swords and stout armor goes along way toward making the monk balanced.

On the other hand, I think most of the people here have a good idea on how things work by now. I think Half Ogres seem pretty overpowered as well.

 

[coyote6]

Let's see. Let's make two characters with the same stats. They have a 16 as their highest stat.

A third level human fighter would have an attack roll of +7. (+3 strength, +3 BAB, Weapon Focus). The half-Ogre would have an attack of +8 (+6 str, +1 BAB, Weapon Focus).

+7 -- you forgot the -1 for Large size.

The human deals an average of 7.5 damage (1d8+3 damage with his longsword). The half ogre deals an average damage of 13 (2d6+6) with his greatsword he wields in one hand.
[/B]

Hmm, why not give the human a greatsword, too? Then he does an average of 11 pts of damage. Granted, he loses AC bonus from a shield.

My don't-have-the-book, relying-on-thirdhand-info, never-played-one snap judgment would be to knock the natural armor down to +2.

 

[Hardhead]

+7 -- you forgot the -1 for Large size.

Thanks. I forgot it on the AC, too. That has now been corrected. He's still ahead of or tied with the human in both categories, though.

Hmm, why not give the human a greatsword, too? Then he does an average of 11 pts of damage. Granted, he loses AC bonus from a shield.

Because I was comparing one-handed weapons. If you want to compare two-handed weapons, the damage would be 11 for the human (2d6+4) with a greatsword. The half-Ogre's would be 18 (2d8+9) with a huge greatsword.

Also, note that my comparison was with a *third* level fighter, which would be valid for an ECL +2 race. But, half-Ogres are only ECL +1!


- Z a c h

 

[Spatula]

Are they giants? I don't have the book handy atm - I thought they were Humanoid type. If they were Giant type that would swing the balance, because of the immunities to charm person, hold person, etc that you mentioned.

It doesn't matter what their type is, since Charm Person, Hold Person, etc. can only target "Medium-sized or smaller Humanoids." Since Half-Ogres are Large, they are immune to such spells even if they are humanoids and not giants.

 

[Sejs]

Huh. Well I'll be a monkey's uncle.. medium size or smaller on both, you're right.

 

[Hardhead]

Yeah, I didn't realize that either. Huh. I added it to my comparison between human and half-ogre, BTW.

 

[Graf]

So is half-ogre going to be a new 3.5 thing or is it just a Savage Species goof?

 

[Kai Lord]

The AC of the human is 21. The Ogre has an AC of 23

The fighter, with a con of 10, has 19 hit points on average. The half-Ogre has 11.

So, uh, yeah. The Ogre looses out slightly in HP (but beats him soundly in AC,

The Half-Ogre slightly loses out with -8 hit points, but soundly beats the human's AC by 2 points? Hmm, I'd say that makes them at least ECL+6.

 

[LostSoul]

Githzeari get +6 dex, +2 Int -2 Wis, and they're ECL +1 (plus, their Outsiders, so they can't be raised). No nat armor (they do get a armor bonus, but not a nat armor, so it stacks with uh, a whole lot less). No large size.

Actually, Githzerai are ECL +2. I'm almost positive.