Savage Species preview.

[jasamcarl]

It really comes down to a time versus value calculation. I read something like "The Book of Righteousness" and say to myself I could never come up with something of that high quality without a huge outlay of time and effort. It just takes to much work for me to write that well.

I look at the sample Savage Species page and say. Hmm, that would take me five minutes to come up with. For me, the time value benefit is just not there. In fact it took me less than that to do something similiar for the Centaur:

Centaur starts with: +2 Str, -2 Int
Hoof attack increases from 1d4 to 1d6 at level 4.

The Centaur
Lvl HD BAB Frt Ref Will Skill CR Special
1st 1d8 +1 +0 +2 +2 (2+IntMod)x4 1 Feat, +1 Natural Armor Class, Speed 30, Med. Size
2nd 2d8 +2 +1 +3 +3 0 1 +2 Wis
3rd 2d8 +2 +1 +3 +3 0 2 +2 Str, +2 Dex
4th 3d8 +3 +1 +3 +3 (2+IntMod) 2 Speed 40, Feat
5th 3d8 +3 +1 +3 +3 0 2 +2 Dex, +2 Con
6th 4d8 +4 +1 +4 +4 0 3 +2 Str, Speed 50, Large
7th 4d8 +5 +1 +4 +4 (2+IntMod) 3 +2 Str, +2 Con

Well, you are certainly an odd one. I find incredibly easy to come up with some cliched Homeric/Judeo-Christian pantheon, but far more time consuming to create mechanics which are actually BALANCED and consistent with almost everything that was laid out before. Wow, what a marvel.

 

[GravyFingerz]

It really comes down to a time versus value calculation. I read something like "The Book of Righteousness" and say to myself I could never come up with something of that high quality without a huge outlay of time and effort. It just takes to much work for me to write that well.

I look at the sample Savage Species page and say. Hmm, that would take me five minutes to come up with. For me, the time value benefit is just not there. In fact it took me less than that to do something similiar for the Centaur:

Centaur starts with: +2 Str, -2 Int
Hoof attack increases from 1d4 to 1d6 at level 4.

The Centaur
Lvl HD BAB Frt Ref Will Skill CR Special
1st 1d8 +1 +0 +2 +2 (2+IntMod)x4 1 Feat, +1 Natural Armor Class, Speed 30, Med. Size
2nd 2d8 +2 +1 +3 +3 0 1 +2 Wis
3rd 2d8 +2 +1 +3 +3 0 2 +2 Str, +2 Dex
4th 3d8 +3 +1 +3 +3 (2+IntMod) 2 Speed 40, Feat
5th 3d8 +3 +1 +3 +3 0 2 +2 Dex, +2 Con
6th 4d8 +4 +1 +4 +4 0 3 +2 Str, Speed 50, Large
7th 4d8 +5 +1 +4 +4 (2+IntMod) 3 +2 Str, +2 Con

After looking at your advancement rules for the Centaur, I've come to the conclusion that you could benefit from Savage Species

 

[Ysgarran]

Well, you are certainly an odd one. I find incredibly easy to come up with some cliched Homeric/Judeo-Christian pantheon, but far more time consuming to create mechanics which are actually BALANCED and consistent with almost everything that was laid out before. Wow, what a marvel.

Kind of depends on your audience and your own skills, doesn't it? The PC in my game include two ex-Nasa engineers, one fellow who specializes in 'target recognition software', an actuary and one fellow who owns his own automotive parts store.

The mechanics are the least of my problems as DM because if there is a flaw in the balance of the mechanics I can rely on this group to find it and exploit it. Fortunately, they are also very good natured when it comes to me bringing things back into balance. In other words, if I do allow something into the game that is broken, they are very good about allowing me to fix it later.

Now, getting this group to move from 'the stats make the game' to a 'the character makes the game' attitude is much more difficult (for me). While the gods described in tBotR did not depart very far from a typical western panetheon I found the level of detail on each church be very useful in encouraging my players to more in character.

Ysgarran.

p.s.
From the interview on 'Savage Species' the templates seem to have some potential. I'm not trying to run down the book before I see it, I'm just saying I found the excerpt on the WotC site be completely uninspiring.

 

[Ysgarran]

After looking at your advancement rules for the Centaur, I've come to the conclusion that you could benefit from Savage Species

heh,
Maybe you are correct. I'll be curious how close I came to what shows up in 'Savage Species' book when it comes out. OTH, look to at my reply to jasamcarl. Getting the balance right on the first try is not an issue for me.

Ysgarran.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I'm definately getting this book, as I think it will generally be useful even if I don't have a bunch of monsters as player characters. And I can sort of envision some class progressions, even though there still be some that's hard to do. Though templates look a little hard to handle, but I suspect it might be like multiclassing where you can have something like a elf rogue 13/ vampire 3, orc barbarian 8/ wereboar 2 or a human druid 10/ paragon 10.

 

[blackshirt5]

I like this, it's definitely shot to the top of my list(it's sitting pretty next to Dungeoncraft).

 

[Dinkeldog]

Re: Wow...

...to think that just a few days ago, some people were grinning at OD&D for it's "silly" concept to make 3 races actual classes you could play and rise through the levels...and now all's aflame for a book that does so with a host of creatures from MM?

Yes, but "O"D&D didn't allow multi-classing, except to a couple prestige classes, like the Druid. The concept that all elves must be fighter/wizards? Yeah, I'll still grin at that. It feels so 1975 to me.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Judging from the latest Dragon issue I received, this looks a lot like a preview of the 3.5 MM.

 

[Aeolius]

So, who is up for a campaign which will blend Awaken, Reincarnation, Masters of the Wild, and Savage Species?

Nature of the Beast

 

[EricNoah]

Savage Species: Contents

Chapter 1 (p. 5-8) -- Character Creation Basics -- Defines terms like Character Level, Challenge Rating, Effective Character Level, Level Adjustment, and Starting ECL. Provides step-by-step overview of creating a monster character.

Chapter 2 (p. 9-24) -- Building Monster Characters -- The art and science of building a monster character; breaks monsters into groups such as Introductory (examples: orc, troglodyte, centaur), Intermediate (examples: mephit, ogre mage, troll, hill giant, and templates like half-dragon and half-celestial), and Advanced (examples: dragons, devils, elementals and templates like ghost, lich and vampire) based on how challenging it is going to be to create and balance adventures for them. There are many tables and charts detailing monster name / type / hit dice / level adjustment / starting ECL / skill points for base creature.

Chapter 3 (p. 25-28) -- Monster Classes -- This is what we saw in the WotC exerpt online, plus the theory and practice behind how to build your own monster classes. See Appendix 1 for many samples pre-built.

Chapter 4 (p. 29-40) -- Feats -- I count about 70 new feats; many are "monstrous" but there are plenty of general feats too.

Chapter 5 (p. 41-58) -- Equipment -- Talks about weapon and armor sizes, multiple limbs, new weapons, armor, and special equipment.

Chapter 6 (p. 59-72) -- Spells -- What can I say, lots of spells.

Chapter 7 (p. 73-100) -- Prestige classes -- Emancipated Spawn, Illithid Savant, Master of Flies, Scaled Horror, Siren, Slaad Brooder, Survivor, Sybil, Waverider, Yuan-Ti Cultist.

Chapter 8 (p. 101-104) -- Campaigns -- Presents advice and some campaign models that might feature monstrous PCs.

Chapter 9 (p. 105-110) -- Advancing a Monster -- DM tips for beefing up standard monsters for use against PCs.

Chapter 10 (p. 111-144) -- Templates -- Detailed instructions for applying templates. New templates: feral, gelatinous, ghost brute, incarnate construct, insectile, monstrous beast, multiheaded, mummified, reptilian, spectral, symbiotic, tauric, umbral, wight, winged, wraith, yuan-ti. Rules for applying multiple templates (which one goes first). Notes on templates from the original MM.

Chapter 11 (p. 145-151) -- Becoming a Monster -- Rules for transforming from, say, a human into some monstrous race.

Appendix 1 (p. 152-204) -- Sample Monster Classes -- here dey are!

Air Elemental, Large
Annis Hag
Aranea
Astral Deva
Athach
Avoral
Azer
Barghest
Belker
Centaur
Djinni
Drider
Earth Elemental, Large
Efreeti
Ettercap
Fire Elemental, Large
Fire Giant
Flamebrother Salamander
Flesh Golem
Frost Giant
Ghoul
Green Hag
Griffon
Grig
Hamatula
Harpy
Hound Archon
Imp
Janni
Kyton
Lillend
Magmin
Medusa
Mind Flayer
Mummy
Nixie
Ogre
Ogre Mage
Pixie
Rakshasa
Satyr
Sea Hag
Shadow
Stone Giant
Succubus/Incubus
Treant
Triton
Troll
Trumpet Archon
Umber Hulk
Vrock
Water Elemental

Appendix 2 (p. 205-213) -- Compiled Tables

Appendix 3 (p. 214-222) -- New Creatures -- Anthropomorphic animals; Half-ogre race; desmodu, loxo, thri-kreen from MM II. A quick look at the "revised" thri-kreen stats reveals a) they get Weapon Familiarity (a new D&D 3.5 feature meaning they treat the exotic weapons of their race -- the gythka and the chatkcha -- as martial weapons); b) they get a few more skill points than their MMII counterpart.