Savage Species preview.

[Mercule]

Well, this book just went from a "probably" to a "wait and see", for me (that's a downgrade, but not a horrible one). I've got some cash that I had earmarked for the book, but I'll probably get something else and add "Savage Species" to my "when I get around to it" list, kinda like "Defenders of the Faith".

Races as classes just doesn't appeal to me. I didn't like it in basic D&D, I don't like it now. I suppose it justifies a book of its own more than a list of ECLs does. At least it's a better idea than those horrid prestige races in Dragon, though.

Of course, being the open-minded fellow that I am, I'm reserving true judgement until I see more. The above is just my knee-jerk reaction.

 

[Ysgarran]

I think that could be said about prepublished adventures, splatbooks, epic level rules, etc. Fortunately I think there's a market for DM time-savers.

It really comes down to a time versus value calculation. I read something like "The Book of Righteousness" and say to myself I could never come up with something of that high quality without a huge outlay of time and effort. It just takes to much work for me to write that well.

I look at the sample Savage Species page and say. Hmm, that would take me five minutes to come up with. For me, the time value benefit is just not there. In fact it took me less than that to do something similiar for the Centaur:

Centaur starts with: +2 Str, -2 Int
Hoof attack increases from 1d4 to 1d6 at level 4.

The Centaur
Lvl HD BAB Frt Ref Will Skill CR Special
1st 1d8 +1 +0 +2 +2 (2+IntMod)x4 1 Feat, +1 Natural Armor Class, Speed 30, Med. Size
2nd 2d8 +2 +1 +3 +3 0 1 +2 Wis
3rd 2d8 +2 +1 +3 +3 0 2 +2 Str, +2 Dex
4th 3d8 +3 +1 +3 +3 (2+IntMod) 2 Speed 40, Feat
5th 3d8 +3 +1 +3 +3 0 2 +2 Dex, +2 Con
6th 4d8 +4 +1 +4 +4 0 3 +2 Str, Speed 50, Large
7th 4d8 +5 +1 +4 +4 (2+IntMod) 3 +2 Str, +2 Con

 

[EricNoah]

I see it being most useful for players who want to create unusual PCs. I don't see myself as a DM using the "monster-as-class" concept much. Of course there appear to be other things in the book that might be useful (PrCs, templates, feats).

 

[Greybar]

EricNoah:

You know what occurs to me -- there might be a market for some fan-created additions that show, for example, the progression from 8th level Minotaur to some sort of a Legendary minotaur. 20th level minotaur anyone?

Absolutely. That was my thought in reading the article on Wizards as well. "More minotaur than your average minotaur".

The reverse is also something that I'll probably start doing immediately. Minotaurs happen to figure prominently in an area my players are heading into. I believe that the "standard" minotaur will become the 6HD, 3CR version without the "immune to maze" aspect that doesn't apply to my world as well.

Hmm Minotaur6/Rogue3 who charges from the brush into a goring sneak attack...

John

 

[Ysgarran]

I could see myself buying the product for other aspects, such as templates, PrCs and feats. If the feats and Prcs are provide a very good role playing aspect to them, that will be a big positive.

I see it being most useful for players who want to create unusual PCs. I don't see myself as a DM using the "monster-as-class" concept much. Of course there appear to be other things in the book that might be useful (PrCs, templates, feats).

 

[Knight Otu]

Races as classes just doesn't appeal to me.

As far as I understand, the monsters as classes thing is an optional feature. We will still see ECLs, and apparently also a method to guess Level Adjustment. However, it seems to be a rather large portion of the book.

 

[coyote6]

I see it being most useful for players who want to create unusual PCs. I don't see myself as a DM using the "monster-as-class" concept much.

It would make it easy to create younger-than-normal monsters(e.g., "baby minotaurs"), which could be handy in a number of situations -- e.g., foes for lower-level PCs, stats for intrinsically & unredeemable Evil-to-the-core young monsters that might swarm out of a nest of said monsters, or even things to take care of ("According to the message I just got from my god, this young minotaur may grow up to be a great hero that can redeem all the minotaurs. There are three different evil gods and demons that don't want that to happen; it's up to us to protect him.").

Or, hey, how about some odd cohorts? Say, an adolescent minotaur you save from death who joins your ranger as your cohort, taking levels of druid or monk or something (interspersed with minotaur levels as it grows, of course).

I guess Savage Species just went back on my buy list.

 

[Simplicity]

I love this idea! Monsters as a class... And being able to start as a monster at first level! It's great!

I always hated the ECL method because it means that some players eseentially start at higher levels, and the gameplay starts off imbalanced... Or you have to start people at higher levels.

Plus, it adds a bunch of nice NPCs for me... Oh, look a baby minotaur... How cute...

 

[Henry]

Well, one thing's for sure: An extended "Reverse Dungeon" just got a lot easier to create...

As for myself and for our group, I dunno. There are so many other things out there that take precedence for me, Such as Charles Ryan's Ultramodern Firearms, et. al. It will be a tough buy for me if I do it.

Y'know, at first, I thought there was going to be NOTHING to interest me in gaming materials this year. Just two months after that thought, I'm already trying NOT to buy so many of the supplements due this year.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Can I say one thing?

Called it a mile away.

Now, I know for sure I want to write a monster book that takes this into effect with every creature. Give the "baseline", LV 1 version, add advancement (and what it gets when it advances) up to 20th level...

I'll post the first one when I get it done, but I'm getting excited about it. I've waited ever since 2e for the ability to play nearly any monster as a PC, and I've prayed that they would unify the monster and PC rules.

This is about as close as I'm going to get without a substantial overhaul of the way monsters are done, so I'm quite, quite happy with it.