Say NO to 3.5

[Shadowlord]

If you've read Monte Cook's review on the revised books, you should be smart enough to realize that WOTC doesn't have any interest in improving the game and that in fact buying all new books again isn't going to improve your game much or even at all (possibly confusing you at the cost of gaming pleasure).

There's only two kinds of people who will buy those books:
1. Those who are new to the game which is OK.
2. Those fanatic enough to take whatever WOTC throws at them. I wouldn't wanna eat dirt like that...

 

[BiggusGeekus]

There's only two kinds of people who will buy those books:
1. Those who are new to the game which is OK.
2. Those fanatic enough to take whatever WOTC throws at them. I wouldn't wanna eat dirt like that...

3. d20 publishers who want to write 3.5 material and find the SRD cumbersome
4. People who disagree with you.

 

[Buttercup]

You know, some people actually like the changes. That's another sort who will buy the book.

And then there are those of us who aren't sure yet if we're going to buy them. Me? I'm gonna download the 3.5 SRD first, and see exactly which changes I like. If I like enough to justify spending the money, I'll pick up the PHB, and possibly the DMG.

The problem I anticipate is that many people will, as Sean K. Reynolds said, end up playing a massively houseruled 3.0, where the houserules are those 3.5 ones that the group likes. This won't make the game more universally playable, but less. But I suppose this situation was bound to happen regardless of how large or small the revision was.

 

[Drawmack]

link please?

 

[Shadowlord]

You know, some people actually like the changes.

I didn't say they're all bad, but they aren't worth their money. Pay almost 100 $ to see some houserules that now appear in the books?? Some people are so addicted that they loose their sanity.
For every improvement they added; there's also a rule that's a step backwards. Changing rules for the sake of changing them (= forcing you to buy it) isn't an improvement at all.

It's not only 90 $ more (in Europe it will be 120 €), it will be hundreds more once you're forced to buy all those supplements and setting books again. And you're giving in to whatever WOTC presents you. I'm sure some are laughing right now.

Like Monte says, there are too many changes (both drastic and subtle ones) that aren't justified for merely a "revision". Read yourself and judge it; I'm sure though that many don't take any sceptic approach at all. Oh well, let them throw away their money.

The link is fouund in another thread:
http://www.montecook.com/review.html

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I didn't say they're all bad, but they aren't worth their money. Pay almost 100 $ to see some houserules that now appear in the books?? Some people are so addicted that they loose their sanity.

I find it ironic that some dislike 3.5 because there aren't enough changes for the money, while others dislike 3.5 because there are too many changes.

Were I WOTC, that would tend to make me ignore customer feedback in general.

 

[Piratecat]

Don't be silly, Shadowlord. Monte had some excellent points, but I have them, and I personally like about 90% of the changes. Of course they have an interest in improving the game; they just also have an interest in making money.

I'd be a lot happier of people could decide things for themselves, instead of reading commentary and making an emotional conclusion without ever having seen the books. I strongly recommend that you glance through someone's copies before making up your mind. The new MM is especially useful, I think.

So, to sum up: being a sheep is bad. Having a knee-jerk reaction is bad. Thinking for yourself is good. If you don't want to buy them, that's obviously fine - but please don't come here and try to convince others when you haven't even seen the darn things yet. That's sort of bad form.

 

[Shadowlord]

So, to sum up: being a sheep is bad. Having a knee-jerk reaction is bad. Thinking for yourself is good.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I've been searching for months for a new RPG so by now I know what's out there. And there are many companies that make better products. Mainstream isn't synonym for the best.

Mind you, MANY people simply buy the books because it's D&D. I know quite a few who order(ed) them months before their release. Now how silly is that?

Let me reassure you this comment comes from someone who totally LOVED 3e from the first moment it came out! I also saw what products appeared every month and I noticed the evolution where D&D was/is going. And it's a step backwards. I know what I'm speaking about even though it's hard for me to express it all in English.

Were I WOTC, that would tend to make me ignore customer feedback in general.

Of course if the vast public is immature you get these immature products. But there are also those who expect a deeper, richer reward from an RPG. Those players have also something to say.

 

[The Forsaken One]

3.5 makes 75% of my houserules official. It was a dream come true, the remaining 25% of changes are item changes.

For me it's a real improvement to the game and I am thouroughly enjoying it. A powergamer/munchkin/minmaxer in my group isn't but even he can see alot of good points, and for gods sake I hope he finally finds time to ROLE PLAY which has been improving alot for him any so I shouldn't rant this bad but.. heh.

I just like it, alot.

 

[Shadowlord]

...and for gods sake I hope he finally finds time to ROLE PLAY which has been improving alot for him any so I shouldn't rant this bad but...

D&D may be so focused on balance but even all those "balanced" rules can't offer more roleplay. It's time some realize this is a roleplaying game, and not a miniature combat game where 3.5 is definitely heading. I expected some more roleplaying aids (but I knew they wouldn't be included).
Thus, don't expect your buddy to change his approach to D&D. He'll find the gaps, as they'll always do.