SCAG Thread

[skerritthegreen]

Also am I correct in saying that a character can't change starting seasons? But they still could take the new book over the EE if they had the EE starting season?

Correct and correct

 

[Steve_MND]

The other advantage to doing 'blended' options via certificate is because, since certs are relatively rare and you can't be certain of getting one, the optimization community doesn't find much benefit in doing the analysis on combinations that can only be played via cert.

Have you seen the optimization community recently? They'll do cost-benefit spreads for different manufacturers of dice, if they feel it might give them an edge. Besides, these certs are only rare for us, in AL. To the larger gaming population, those combinations can be as common as dirt, so those analyses will definitely be out there.

Keep in mind that the certs aren't necessarily all tied to the con; they're tied to the admins that possess them. I have given certs to DMs at a smaller local convention where it literally cost them nothing but their time and however much they paid for parking.

You still just linked that back to a con, which I think is the point. Not everybody can go to or participate at a con, even a local one (which simply don't exist for many folks). I don't mind the idea of certed items in theory, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that certs have any sort of egalitarian distribution. If we're going to have AL be a store-sponsored thing, I'd like to see more certs at more stores rather than more cons.

 

[skerritthegreen]

One of the (several) ideas behind unique certs is also to get stores and cons to invite the Admin/RC/LC to the store or con. We want to invite campaign staff to things so they know about them and feel welcome. I know some of the admins have traveled to cons/stores that were not near them because they were invited. Those sorts of things might score a unique cert or two for your area for your con/store to give away.

 

[Pauper]

Have you seen the optimization community recently? They'll do cost-benefit spreads for different manufacturers of dice, if they feel it might give them an edge. Besides, these certs are only rare for us, in AL. To the larger gaming population, those combinations can be as common as dirt, so those analyses will definitely be out there.

OK, I was a bit off there. What I should have said is that the larger AL community will, by and large, ignore those analyses as long as they're not relevant to AL play.** The net result still works out -- fewer people playing AL whose primary motivation for playing is character optimization, and a healthier campaign as a result.

You still just linked that back to a con, which I think is the point. Not everybody can go to or participate at a con, even a local one (which simply don't exist for many folks). I don't mind the idea of certed items in theory, but let's not kid ourselves by saying that certs have any sort of egalitarian distribution. If we're going to have AL be a store-sponsored thing, I'd like to see more certs at more stores rather than more cons.

Here's the problem with that -- if you send certs to the store, you have to send lots of certs to the store, because having the store run out of certs causes its own problems (see the even now occasional flare-ups that come when someone sees a player with one of the cool faction folders from Tyranny of Dragons and realizes they can't have one, because they're long gone). If you're going to give a cert to everyone, there's no reason to make it a cert -- just make it legal for everyone. It's simpler, and cheaper, and doesn't have a built-in expiration date.

With that said, I've gotten a cert at my FLGS -- but that's largely because our Regional Coordinator runs games out of that store, and I was fortunate enough to get a reward that way. Skerrit's point about possibly inviting admins and RCs (I'm not aware that many LCs get access to certs to distribute, but that may be just how things are done in our region) to your store is a solid one; just don't expect that it'll be like Oprah ("And YOU get a cert! And YOU get a cert!")

--
Pauper

** - The exception being the occasional "but why can't I have X and Y in Adventurers League! that's not fair!!!!11eleven!" post on ENWorld or in other forums.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

Keep in mind that the certs aren't necessarily all tied to the con; they're tied to the admins that possess them. I have given certs to DMs at a smaller local convention where it literally cost them nothing but their time and however much they paid for parking.

Then wouldn't a more a balanced approach be making sure that an equitable amount of certs are provided to admins across the globe? If there are no admins in a particular corner of the world, then the RC for that area would be the one with the certs. These certs can be further split among the LCs for ease of distribution. My point is that certs that aren't distributed are just wasted WotC dollars on printed paper.

Gaming culture has evolved away from the concept of purely exclusive add-on content towards an acceptable middle-ground of timed exclusivity. Pretty much every AAA developer releases the exclusive content to the general public, after the early adopters have had enough time with it to feel their early adoption was worth the privilege. I'm not saying that all certed content needs to be made available wholesale, but there needs to be a distinction between which things should eventually make their way into the greater AL community.

There's a fine balance point between something being rare enough to be special and something that appears so infrequently that no one gives a kobold's arse about it. As far as the opinions at my FLGS is concerned, no one cares at all about the certed content because none of them attend cons outside of the area. If there was a way to get con certs from a RC or LC, then it'd entice the population to expand their convention horizons. None of the cons here offer certs outside of the ones we already get at the store, nor do they wish to make the investment on Fai Chen.

Mind you, all of this is what I observed here in South Florida, sitting a 3 hour drive away from Orlando and even less to Miami. I can only imagine how sparse con cert distribution is in lesser populated areas of the planet...

 

[skerritthegreen]

My point is that certs that aren't distributed are just wasted WotC dollars on printed paper.

One note however, the Admins paid out of their own pockets to print most of the special certs (though the Baldman did pay for some of them at Gen Con). So its more the Admins looking to reward people who do special things for the campaign or unique players (I love to hand them to little kids or charities), or as thank yous for inviting us to your cons.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

That I didn't know. It helps paint a different picture of how the con cert process goes.

 

[RealAlHazred]

You still just linked that back to a con, which I think is the point.

I think of the certs as more of a con thing anyway.

AL-legal Home Play gives your DM the most leeway to customize the experience.

Playing D&D Encounters or Expeditions at a Store (or other public venue) gives you a cert which you can trade. However, you are restricted as to what kind of play experience you have (because generally people have some irregularity in their attendance because of Real LifeTM.

Playing D&D Expeditions or Epics at a Convention gives you a cert which you can trade, and possibly a special cert that can't be gotten any other way. However, you are even more restricted as to what kind of play experience you have (because con attendance is even more varied generally than hobby shops).

What other unique benefit would you recommend for conventions, to give them something to offer players who might otherwise just go to the FLGS?

 

[darjr]

The con certs are in part a reward for the folks who went to the con and put up with the trouble and expense to have a large group of players and DMS in one place to make the experience epic. Right?

I think it would be a huge mistake to take that incentive away or water it down. How else would you entice a large collection of players to bother?

Those folks should be rewarded.

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

Liane, I don't think it's the concept of con certs that is bothersome to some of us, but concerns about its application in AL thus far that have some of us being vocal about the system.

My chief fear about every new book release is that some player options will be arbitrarily set behind the paywall of con attendance for the entirety of 5e. I don't have a problem with certain things like magic items staying con exclusive, but things like races or subclasses should only have a period of exclusivity in the con circuit. Any player option deemed balanced enough for use as a cert is balanced enough for general play. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Now, the recently discussed concept of "Play as X regardless of story origin" certs are a much easier to pill to swallow, as they inherently mean that X is also a part of at least one story origin. If AL is to serve as a marketing arm of D&D, then the amount of content restricted from each release needs to stay at a minimum. Otherwise, you run the risk of negatively impacting sales among the players who provide the most exposure for the product.