School in California decides to make elementary school students wear RFIDs *Updated*

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I know. My point was that their situation can't be compared to an adult working in a building/location that requires a badge.

IMHO, I feel the students should have a say in regards to these measures as should the parents.

I never got a say when my school put in cameras EVERYWHERE except for the bathrooms.

I do agree, though, that the parent's should have a say. Thing about this, though, is that it sounds to me like the schools are just trying to cover thier ass as usual. Schools get sued by parents all the time because they 'aren't watching the kids' etc etc, so they find ways to keep tabs on the kids so they don't get sued.

 

[reveal]

Because it would be your responsability, not the schools, to tage the child away from school. You, as a parent, most certainly could... and there are lojack/GPS devices on the market specifically for the purpose of giving parents that ability.

I specifically stated that these badges were being used only during the hours that the school system was responsible for your childs safety. And that the limited technology within these badges (these are not military technology GPS tracking devices or james bond style tracking beacons, people) allows overburdened public schools better serve its purpose.

The question there is what frequency RFID chip is being used. If it's low enough, the distance would be around 1.5 feet to read it. Which wouldn't really help much. So they would have to bump it up to allow reading from a distance. Especially if they are to be able to track students anywhere on school grounds. So while not a GPS, it certainly has the capability of being read from a great distance.

And what's to stop someone from buying a reader and tracking a child on the way home? Do the children leave the badges at school? They're responsible for replacing them so I assumed it is their responsibility to keep them safe at home. What if a child forgets to take his/hers off? It wouldn't be difficult to pick up/make a reader and just go through the frequencies until you find one.

 

[Aristotle]

But you're a person who chose to be in that place and agreed to the terms provided by the company prior to accepting the position. In the children's case, they are legally obliged to attend school and have not agreed verbally or in writing to accept this measure of security.

They shouldn't need to, as others have said: The parents should have some say, not the children.

As for my situation. I didn't choose it... it was what was available (the tech industry took a dive a few years ago, if you hadn't heard), but in my time here the level of surveilance has only been an issue one time (and in that instance it proved beneficial to me since I was clearly doing what I was supposed to be doing).

 

[reveal]

Quick thihg: If anyone thinks I'm being unreasonable and being too paranoid, when it comes to how other adults treat my child, I would rather assume the worst and be wrong than think everything is just fine and be wrong.

 

[reveal]

As for my situation. I didn't choose it... it was what was available (the tech industry took a dive a few years ago, if you hadn't heard), but in my time here the level of surveilance has only been an issue one time (and in that instance it proved beneficial to me since I was clearly doing what I was supposed to be doing).

But you did have a choice. It may not have felt like it, but you could have, at any time, said no and walked away. You chose not to.

Children cannot, legally, say no. They have to go school; public, private or otherwise.

 

[fanboy2000]

facts

Here's some more info.

1. They didn't pay for it. There is no indication that the school has low attendance at the 7th and 8th grade level.

Brittan Elementary got the technology for free from the InCom Corporation, a small Sutter City start-up. The company's founders, Michael Dobson and Doug Ahlers, have strong ties to schools in the area: Dobson is a network administrator for the district, and Ahlers is a graphics and animation teacher at nearby Sutter Union High School.

2. They didn't discuss this with the parents first.

3. The school board hasn't taken any action despite parental complaints.

And yes, it's important that children learn why the go to school. Learning why we do things is important to success later in life.

 

[Aristotle]

Especially if they are to be able to track students anywhere on school grounds. So while not a GPS, it certainly has the capability of being read from a great distance.

Read from a great distance, but not triangulated or to an exact location. They would know that student 1 is in somewhere within Area B because the receiver in Area B (areas might be as big as a wing of the school or as small as a classroom depending on the school's budget) is currently powering studen 1's badge... but they would not know that student 1 is hiding under a desk or standing in a group with students 2, 3, and 4.

And what's to stop someone from buying a reader and tracking a child on the way home? Do the children leave the badges at school? They're responsible for replacing them so I assumed it is their responsibility to keep them safe at home.

I can't answer that as I don't know the details. This is precisely the sort of question I would ask if my child were going to that school. Right along with the cost of the replacement badge. I know when I lose my badges for work I have to pay $25 per badge ($100 total). I would hope these badges are less expensive, since the RDIF chip is under $0.20.

What if a child forgets to take his/hers off? It wouldn't be difficult to pick up/make a reader and just go through the frequencies until you find one.

In order to give a reliable answer to this I would have to know more than I do about RDIF technology. I would assume that basic encryption (possibly better than basic since we are dealing with children) would be included, so you can't just dial in and locate these things with any reader.

Of course, someone with enough expertise could probably figure it out... but an abductor who knows about the tag would only likely go after a tagged child for specific purposes (a disgruntled/mentally ill parent or kidnappers looking for ransome). An untagged child would be much simpler to get, and the lack of a tag showing the child's last known location would likely be more appealing to the criminal in question.

 

[Aristotle]

But you did have a choice. It may not have felt like it, but you could have, at any time, said no and walked away. You chose not to.

Work or be destitute. Big choice there, huh? Oh... or I could flip burgers for minimum wage. That's plenty of cash to take care of a home, vehicle, and dependants.

Children cannot, legally, say no. They have to go school; public, private or otherwise.

But they can go to other schools. Unless you live in a pretty rural area there are usually several school systems in a given area. Several of my friends in school lived in another district but went to my school. It might not be the answer... but parents who refuse to allow a technology as simple as RDIF into their children's lives are going to be faced with that, or forking out the cash for private school, or dedicating themselves to homeschooling.

 

[reveal]

In order to give a reliable answer to this I would have to know more than I do about RDIF technology. I would assume that basic encryption (possibly better than basic since we are dealing with children) would be included, so you can't just dial in and locate these things with any reader.

You're exactly right that we don't know all about the tech. But, again, I'd rather assume the worst and be wrong.

 

[reveal]

Work or be destitute. Big choice there, huh? Oh... or I could flip burgers for minimum wage. That's plenty of cash to take care of a home, vehicle, and dependants.

A choice is a choice whether or not you like the options.

But they can go to other schools. Unless you live in a pretty rural area there are usually several school systems in a given area. Several of my friends in school lived in another district but went to my school. It might not be the answer... but parents who refuse to allow a technology as simple as RDIF into their children's lives are going to be faced with that, or forking out the cash for private school, or dedicating themselves to homeschooling.

Assuming there are other schools in the area. Some parents can't afford to send their children to another school because the busses won't take them to said new school.