D&D 5E Scrolls in 5e; loving this!

[Staffan]

I guess I missed all of the "spell scroll" references when I read all of this. I do not recall reading anything that said Spell Scroll. So far, the only example has been a scroll of protection. Are there others? And if not, why didn't the rules just say scrolls of protection?

So tell me if I have this straight. There are "magic items" called scrolls that anyone can attempt to use. Then there are "spell scrolls" not meant as magic items per se, but as a spell in ready form to use by someone who wrote it? In which case, as long as that spell is in my list, I am good to go. Would I roll an INT check for a spell scroll? Is there no difference between arcane magic and divine magic in this case?

"Scroll" is a category of magic item, just like "ring" or "wand." The general category of scrolls has very few restrictions of use: you just need to be literate in some tongue in order to read it.

However, there is also a specific magic item, "spell scroll". If "scroll" is like "wand", "spell scroll" is like "wand of lightning bolts" - it's a specific example of a general category, and just like the wand of lightning bolts is more limited in its use than the regular wand category, so are spell scrolls - in order to use a spell scroll you need to have the spell in question on your class list, and if you're too low level you run the risk of messing up.

Here, and I thought this was going to be easy. Ok now I am wondering. How does a wizard copy a spell scroll into t his spell book? I have not seen the spell; read magic.

You don't need read magic to understand a spell scroll, you just need to be of the right class. If you want to copy it into your spell book, you need to succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with DC 10+spell level (a restriction on that particular item) and spend 2 hours and 50 gp per spell level (because that's the cost in time and gold to copy a spell into your spell book).

If you're copying a spell from another spell book, you don't need to roll Arcana, just spend the time and money. I view this as the difference between getting a ready-made meal (the scroll) and getting a recipe (the spellbook). If you have the meal, you can take it apart and try to figure out how it was made, but you might fail in figuring it out - or, you could just enjoy the meal as it is (cast the spell from the scroll once and then be rid of it). But if you have the recipe, there's no problem in figuring out how the mean is made (how the spell is cast) - it's all right there. You will still have to make the meal yourself if you want to eat it though (cast the spell to get any use out of it).

 

[Quickleaf]

"Scrolls" include Scrolls of Protection and Spell Scrolls (and possibly other types that haven't appeared in 5e yet).

So how exactly does a wizard get a spell scroll into his spell book?

RAW, according to PHB pg. 114, the wizard copies a spell off a spell scroll into his spellbook the same way he'd copy a spell from another spellbook or any other source: money and time.

No special read magic spell or Arcana check is required. Just money and time.

[SBLOCK=Copying a Spell into the Book]When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare
the time to decipher and copy it.
Copying a spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.
For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells.[/SBLOCK]

 

[Wrathamon]

While I believe that RAI is that anybody can use scrolls (general) but only casters who have the spell on their class spell list can use spell scrolls (specific), there is a RAW interpretation that anyone can use spell scrolls.

Page 139 says that "[a]ny creature that can understand a written language can read the arcane script on a scroll and attempt to activate it."

Page 200 says "f the spell is on your class's spell list, you can use an action to read the scroll and cast its spell without having to provide any of the spell's components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible."

Now, the only other scroll in the game are scrolls of protection. But these work automatically. There's no "attempting to activate it". You read it, it works. At the same time, the description of spell scrolls say the scrolls are unintelligible, not that they are ineffective.

So one way to rule it, and the way I think I will for my games, is that anybody can try to activate a spell scroll by making the DC 10 + Spell Level check (and suffering from the Scroll Mishap table on page 140 if they fail!). But they can't decipher the meaning. Which means that, barring a friendly caster of that spell telling them what the scroll says, they don't know what the scroll will do. That sounds like fun!

AND, they have to have the material components. Meaning they can cast the spell, but they need to seek out and gather the needed components to make it work, while those who have it on their spell list do not need to do that.

 

[Snoring Rock]

"Scroll" is a category of magic item, just like "ring" or "wand." The general category of scrolls has very few restrictions of use: you just need to be literate in some tongue in order to read it.

However, there is also a specific magic item, "spell scroll". If "scroll" is like "wand", "spell scroll" is like "wand of lightning bolts" - it's a specific example of a general category, and just like the wand of lightning bolts is more limited in its use than the regular wand category, so are spell scrolls - in order to use a spell scroll you need to have the spell in question on your class list, and if you're too low level you run the risk of messing up.


You don't need read magic to understand a spell scroll, you just need to be of the right class. If you want to copy it into your spell book, you need to succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with DC 10+spell level (a restriction on that particular item) and spend 2 hours and 50 gp per spell level (because that's the cost in time and gold to copy a spell into your spell book).

If you're copying a spell from another spell book, you don't need to roll Arcana, just spend the time and money. I view this as the difference between getting a ready-made meal (the scroll) and getting a recipe (the spellbook). If you have the meal, you can take it apart and try to figure out how it was made, but you might fail in figuring it out - or, you could just enjoy the meal as it is (cast the spell from the scroll once and then be rid of it). But if you have the recipe, there's no problem in figuring out how the mean is made (how the spell is cast) - it's all right there. You will still have to make the meal yourself if you want to eat it though (cast the spell to get any use out of it).

Nice description. I like the meal metaphor. I got home and read all of the sources in the PHB and DMG. I get it now. There may have been a better way for Merls and his team to have consolidated all of that into one space. In the index you have look up spell scroll not just scroll. That is wonky as well.

Good enough. I understand now. I still like the way it works. Kind of weird where cleric, bard, wizard, Druid, sorcerer, and warlock spells overlap and they share spells. But ok.

 

[Lidgar]

Just wanted to say "thanks" to the OP and other who posted here, because I really prefer the "alternate" interpretation (RAI/house rule) approach that any class can cast a spell scroll, but if it is not on your spell list, then requires a DC 10+spell level INT check to use.

The one exception being those 13th level Thief Archetype Rogues of course.

 

[Snoring Rock]

After having read everything I can find on scrolls/spell scrolls and then taking time to ponder the meaning; now I have another question. I looked and found only one “scroll”. It is the protection scroll that just anyone can attempt to use if they can read. So if you miss your INT check, then you consult the scroll mishap table and roll for those results. Gee, all that work on a mishap table over one scroll anyone can read?

Spell scrolls can only be used by those who have that particular spell on their spell list to cast. Seems fair enough me. The rules also state that if it is not on your list, then is appears as gibberish. I take that to mean that you cannot attempt it. There is no mention of a check.

If I find a spell scroll I like and I want to copy it to my spell book, I can do so but I must make an INT check or risk losing the spell. It says nothing there about consulting the mishap table. That seems fair, but again, that table seems out of place for one scroll. I wonder if the rules were meant to be combined somehow and it just never got done. Did the design team mean to have more types of scrolls? Why on earth would there be such a thing as a special protection scroll, made for anyone to read?

Looking back at all of this, I think this was not exactly what was intended. Either the original intention was to have more scrolls, not just protection, or the thought process was lost somewhere. Also the language used throughout was “arcane”. What happened to divine spell scrolls? I assume they exist but they just were not mentioned. I wonder if in the vein of simplification, two different trains of thought never got connected.

Of course, as has been suggested in this thread, you could allow anyone to attempt to read any scroll. I would probably limit it to other casters. I don't know. That lone "scroll" hanging out there is bothersome to me. Just that one type of protection scroll? Has anyone seen any explanation on the WotC forums?

 

[pukunui]

First, the scroll mishap table is an optional rule. It is not assumed to be in play.

Second, in terms of the wording, I think you'll find that the designers were trying to future-proof the core books. That is, while the DMG may only contain two types of scrolls, they may release more types down the road, and they didn't want to have to go back and revise the text in the DMG to account for them.

 

[st33d]

"Scrolls" include Scrolls of Protection and Spell Scrolls (and possibly other types that haven't appeared in 5e yet).


RAW, according to PHB pg. 114, the wizard copies a spell off a spell scroll into his spellbook the same way he'd copy a spell from another spellbook or any other source: money and time.

No special read magic spell or Arcana check is required. Just money and time.

[SBLOCK=Copying a Spell into the Book]When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a level for which you have spell slots and if you can spare
the time to decipher and copy it.
Copying a spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.
For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells.[/SBLOCK]

In the DMG there are two types of scroll. Spell Scrolls and Scrolls. The additional flavour text on Spell Scrolls overrides the Wizard's default ability. It requires the Wizard to make a skill-check to utilize this specific item with their spell book ability.

Same as drinking is normally an interaction but drinking a health potion comes with flavour text - and thus requires a full action to use.

-

Personally I use scrolls and spell scrolls depending on whether I want something everyone can use or a weaksauce scroll that is only of marginal use to casters. Scrolls can do whatever you like.

 

[Snoring Rock]

Just wanted to say "thanks" to the OP and other who posted here, because I really prefer the "alternate" interpretation (RAI/house rule) approach that any class can cast a spell scroll, but if it is not on your spell list, then requires a DC 10+spell level INT check to use.

The one exception being those 13th level Thief Archetype Rogues of course.

Agreed, it has been a good discussion.

 

[jayoungr]

So tell me if I have this straight. There are "magic items" called scrolls that anyone can attempt to use.

Apparently, which means your campaign can proceed as it has been, without violating RAW. Simply declare that any scrolls found by the party are the simple type of scroll, no matter what spell they contain. It's analogous to creating a new potion that isn't in the core books. If for some reason you want to limit who can use a scroll, then you say it's the special type that only casters of a particular class can use.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the intent behind making the two types of scrolls in the first place.