# Second Son of a Second Son: The Stat Draft

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
So yesterday, my group (yes, the people from this thread and this thread and five out of the nine people that played in the last Aquerra campaign, "Out of the Frying Pan" (see sig)) tried something new.

We used a stat draft to determine the characters stats for our next Aquerra campaign (which is named "Second Son of a Second Son"). I had worked out the details of how a stat draft might work in this thread slightly less than a year ago and ran a trial draft.

For those of you who are new to this, this is how it works:
aquerra wiki said:
The DM will pre-determine a number of sets of stats equal to the number of players, plus one. These ability scores will be assigned to particular stats, though six of these will be "wild", being assigned by the player at any time during a draft. These stats will be determined by the DM to have a fair range of scores and create balanced characters for the power level appropriate to the campaign and setting.

The players will take turns choosing stats.

The picking order in the first round will be determined randomly. In the successive rounds the players will choose in an order from lowest pick to the highest in the previous round. In the case of a tie, the player with the lowest total stats at that point chooses first. If it is still a tie, the tied players simply choose in reverse order than they did the previous round (this is also how ties are handled in the first round).

This continues until all the players have all six of their stats accounted for, and then any remaining numbers are discarded.

The whole process is repeated with a new set of numbers, and players choose the set they prefer for their first characters. The remaining sets of ability scores go into a pool (as complete sets) that can be chosen from when replacement player characters are needed (or new players join the game and need to make a character).

So the seven of us (6 players + DM) met up at the house one of the players, sat around the table and I arrayed the numbers in rows secretly, hiding them behind a curtain until we were ready.

I instituted the following rule:

All group negotiation regarding wheeling and dealing about who should pick what should be done before the numbers were revealed. During the draft, the person who was picking was allowed to pick one person each pick to talk to about choices, etc. . . This was done to keep people from yelling advice and stepping on people's toes and being judgmental about other people's choices, but still allowed for some cooperation, which everyone agreed they wanted.

So they talked it over a bit, but perhaps not enough because there was still some sighs and rolling of eyes during the first draft (remember we did two), but what I found interesting was that since everyone said what kind of character they were looking to make and everyone agreed not to compete for the high numbers significant to those classes or class combinations (as we are starting at second level).

So what was interesting was since high scores were "safe" up on the board, people's strategy changed into a kind of bottom-scraping that led to competition for the middle numbers.

These were the players' class declarations:

Gwar2d2: A Militant of Anhur (a kind of warrior priest that can't turn undead, but channels energy to enter a "righteous fury")
Ciaran: A straight fighter
Mofos21: A priest of Ra (the closest thing to a straight cleric there is in Aquerra)
Rastfar: a fighter/diviner of the Academy of Wizardry
Ratchis: an aristocrat/rogue (aristocrat is a PC class in my game based on AGoT noble class)
Martin Olarin: a straight wizard

Anyway, they rolled d30s for picking order and the numbers were revealed:
Code:
``````STR	DEX	CON	INT	WIS	CHA	Wld
8	9	10	10	9	8	9
10	11	12	10	12	10	10
12	13	14	12	14	12	11
13	14	15	12	15	13	12
15	15	16	15	15	15	13
17	16	18	17	16	17	15``````

Round One
Martin Olarin: Wild 13
Ratchis: Wild 15
Ciaran: Str 17
Gwar2d2: Dex 15
Rastfar: Int 15
Mofos21: Con 12

Round Two
Mofos21: Str 15
Martin Olarin: Wis 15
Rastfar: Dex 14
Gwar2d2: Wis 15
Ratchis: Dex 16
Ciaran: Wild 12

Round Three
Ciaran: Con 18
Rastfar: Str 13
Mofos21: Wis 16
Martin Olarin: Int 17
Gwar2d2: Con 14
Ratchis: Wild 11

Round Four
Ratchis: Cha 17
Rastfar: Con 15
Gwar2d2: Cha 13
Mofos21: Cha 12
Martin Olarin: Con 16
Ciaran: Int 12

Round Five
Mofos21: Int 12
Ciaran: Dex 13
Rastfar: Cha 15
Gwar2d2: Int 10
Martin Olarin: Dex 11
Ratchis: Wis 12

Round Six
Gwar2d2: Str 12
Martin Olarin: Str 8
Mofos21: Wild 10
Ratchis: Str 10
Ciaran: Wild 9
Rastfar: Wis 14
----------------------------------------
So now they had their first sets of stats each. The next step was to run through another whole draft before choosing which completed set they would be using for their starting character.

I will come back in a bit to post the overview of the first chosen sets and then the results of the second draft.

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#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
So we ended up with:

Martin Olarin
Str: 8 | Dex: 11 | Con: 16 | Int: 17 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 13

Ratchis
Str: 10 | Dex: 16 | Con: 11 | Int: 15 | Wis: 12 | Cha: 17

Rastfar
Str: 13 | Dex: 14 | Con: 15 | Int: 15 | Wis: 14 | Cha: 15

Mofos21
Str: 15 | Dex: 10 | Con: 12 | Int: 12 | Wis: 16 | Cha: 12

Ciaran
Str: 17 | Dex: 13 | Con: 18 | Int: 12 | Wis: 9 | Cha: 12

Gwar2d2
Str: 12 | Dex: 15 | Con: 14 | Int: 10 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 13

The pick order for the first round of the second draft was determined in order of total sum of your stats in the first draft from lowest to highest.

#### Olaf the Stout

##### Hero
Slightly related - How did you actually end up deciding who would get to play in this campaign? I remember you having the problem of too many players but I don't remember reading about how it was eventually resolved.

What did the players think of the stat draft? Were they happy with what they got in the end?

Olaf the Stout

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
Olaf the Stout said:
Slightly related - How did you actually end up deciding who would get to play in this campaign? I remember you having the problem of too many players but I don't remember reading about how it was eventually resolved.

They went with a Survivor-style vote.
Olaf the Stout said:
What did the players think of the stat draft? Were they happy with what they got in the end?

Olaf the Stout

Everyone had a lot of fun, I think. And as to satisfaction. I will get to that at the end of the over view.

#### Slife

##### First Post
It's interesting that none of the possible stats were below 8. I assume this was intentional.

Did the players choose which of the two sets to use individually, or was it a group choice?

#### Olaf the Stout

##### Hero
el-remmen said:
They went with a Survivor-style vote.

Everyone had a lot of fun, I think. And as to satisfaction. I will get to that at the end of the over view.

Any bad or hurt feelings from those that missed out? And do they have the option of jumping in if someone gets killed?

Olaf the Stout

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
Slife said:
It's interesting that none of the possible stats were below 8. I assume this was intentional.

Basically. Though the second draft does have at least one number under 8, and no 18s.

Slife said:
Did the players choose which of the two sets to use individually, or was it a group choice?

Individually.

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
Olaf the Stout said:
Any bad or hurt feelings from those that missed out? And do they have the option of jumping in if someone gets killed?

Olaf the Stout

Well, they were disappointed, but I don't think there were any bad feelings. We are still playing M&M with those two guys until the Aquerra game starts up.

And if someone drops out they are the first alternates.

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
The order of the second draf was determined by total sum of the stats picked in the first round. For those who are curious that came to:

Mofos21: 77 points
gwar2d2: 79 points
Martin Olarin: 80 points
Ratchis: 81 points
Ciaran: 81 points
Rastfar: 86 points

I had the two 81 point players roll off on those d30s.

The second draft stats were:
Code:
``````STR	DEX	CON	INT	WIS	CHA	Wld
9	6	8	9	9	10	8
10	11	10	10	10	11	11
13	12	12	13	12	13	12
14	13	13	14	13	14	12
15	14	14	15	15	15	14
16	17	17	16	17	16	15``````

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
Draft Two
Round One
Mofos21: Str 15
Gwar2d2: Wild 14
Martin Olarin: Wild 15
Ratchis: Int 14
Ciaran: Int 13
Rastfar: Dex 14

Round Two
Ciaran: Str 16
Rastfar: Int 15
Ratchis: Dex 17
Gwar2d2: Str 14
Martin Olarin: Cha 14
Mofos21: Wis 17

Round Three
Gwar2d2: Cha 13
Martin Olarin: Con 14
Rastfar: Con 13
Ciaran: Dex 13
Ratchis: Cha 16
Mofos21: Wild 12

Round Four
Mofos21: Cha 15
Gwar2d2: Int 10
Ciaran: Wild 12
Rastfar: Str 13
Martin Olarin: Dex 12
Ratchis: Wis 9

Round Five
Ratchis: Con 12
Gwar2d2: Wis 15
Ciaran: Wis 12
Martin Olarin: Int 16
Rastfar: Wis 13
Mofos21: Wild 11

Round Six
Mofos21: Dex 11
Ciaran: Con 17
Ratchis: Str 10
Rastfar: Cha 11
Gwar2d2: Con 10
Martin Olarin: Str 9

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
So the Second draft ended up with:

Martin Olarin
Str: 9 | Dex: 12 | Con: 14 | Int: 16 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 14 (Total Points: 80)

Ratchis
Str: 10 | Dex: 17 | Con: 12 | Int: 14 | Wis: 9 | Cha: 16 (Total Points: 78)

Rastfar
Str: 13 | Dex: 14 | Con: 13 | Int: 15 | Wis: 13 | Cha: 11 (Total Points: 79)

Mofos21
Str: 15 | Dex: 11 | Con: 11 | Int: 12 | Wis: 17 | Cha: 15 (Total Points: 80)

Ciaran
Str: 16 | Dex: 13 | Con: 17 | Int: 13 | Wis: 12 | Cha: 12 (Total Points: 83)

Gwar2d2
Str: 14 | Dex: 14 | Con: 10 | Int: 10 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 13 (Total Points: 76)

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#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
NEXT: Which sets were chosen and which went into the pool. ..

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
So let's go over the two sets each player had to choose from

Martin Olarin
Str: 8 | Dex: 11 | Con: 16 | Int: 17 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 13 *
Str: 9 | Dex: 12 | Con: 14 | Int: 16 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 14

Ratchis
Str: 10 | Dex: 16 | Con: 11 | Int: 15 | Wis: 12 | Cha: 17
Str: 10 | Dex: 17 | Con: 12 | Int: 14 | Wis: 9 | Cha: 16 *

Rastfar
Str: 13 | Dex: 14 | Con: 15 | Int: 15 | Wis: 14 | Cha: 15 *
Str: 13 | Dex: 14 | Con: 13 | Int: 15 | Wis: 13 | Cha: 11

Mofos21
Str: 15 | Dex: 10 | Con: 12 | Int: 12 | Wis: 16 | Cha: 12
Str: 15 | Dex: 11 | Con: 11 | Int: 12 | Wis: 17 | Cha: 15 *

Ciaran
Str: 17 | Dex: 13 | Con: 18 | Int: 12 | Wis: 9 | Cha: 12 *
Str: 16 | Dex: 13 | Con: 17 | Int: 13 | Wis: 12 | Cha: 12

Gwar2d2
Str: 12 | Dex: 15 | Con: 14 | Int: 10 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 13 *
Str: 14 | Dex: 14 | Con: 10 | Int: 10 | Wis: 15 | Cha: 13

* Indicates the chosen set

#### monboesen

##### First Post
There is quite a bit of difference between the best (sum of 86 and +11 modifier) and worst stats (sum of 78 and +8 total modifier) here. Thats a measureable difference when playing.

Intended or did it just happen?

Interestingly the highest stat total went to the Fighter/Diviner, arguebly the most stat-dependant of the characters. Did the players coorporate to insure that?

Your players seem to prioritise high Cha, that is a refreshing change from most players. Any particular reason?

At first glance the Aristocrat/Rogue seems to be in a tight spot if it comes to fighting. Low Str, Low Con. Without sneak attack and weapon finesse the character could have a hard time.

The Fighter looks to be a powerhouse. 17 (18 at 4th level) str and 18 con. Slap on a big armor and a two-handed weapon and you have a killer.

For a fighting priest str 12 is low. Means trouble hitting and low damage, he must rely on buffing and "holy rages".

In fact it looks like the other priest might actually be better in battle, depending a bit on HP rolls and potential differences in spell lists.

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
monboesen said:
There is quite a bit of difference between the best (sum of 86 and +11 modifier) and worst stats (sum of 78 and +8 total modifier) here. Thats a measureable difference when playing.

Intended or did it just happen?

Intended, I guess. I mean, what I really wanted was to avoid the cookie-cutter outcomes of point buy, while still avoiding the WIDE variation of stat sets among players. A +3 total modifier difference is not a big deal at all. In our old 4d6 drop the lowest, we had much bigger disparities - and no one ever complained (much) - I just liked it less and less.

monboesen said:
Interestingly the highest stat total went to the Fighter/Diviner, arguebly the most stat-dependant of the characters. Did the players coorporate to insure that?

They did cooperate - not specifically to give him the best stats - but tto give everyone a chance to get what they wanted.

monboesen said:
Your players seem to prioritise high Cha, that is a refreshing change from most players. Any particular reason?

Well, the theme of the campaign (young nobles) lends itself to politicking and the like and the use of Influence and Reputation rules makes Charisma even more valuable. Plus, we are a "role-play heavy" group - so I am not surprised about the choices in Charisma. The fighter/diviner needed at least a 13 to qualify for the Academy Alumnus feat, and the priests needed high cha too.

monboesen said:
At first glance the Aristocrat/Rogue seems to be in a tight spot if it comes to fighting. Low Str, Low Con. Without sneak attack and weapon finesse the character could have a hard time.
Well, it make sense since he said he wants to play someone "cowardly".

monboesen said:
For a fighting priest str 12 is low. Means trouble hitting and low damage, he must rely on buffing and "holy rages".

Plans to play a female character, and despite our admonitions to the contrary about female strength and fantast worlds - the player insisted on having a lower strength.

#### Hypersmurf

##### Moderatarrrrh...
Does Mofos know he has a +0 Con modifier?

-Hyp.

#### el-remmen

##### Moderator Emeritus
Hypersmurf said:
Does Mofos know he has a +0 Con modifier?

-Hyp.

How could he not?

#### Torx

##### First Post
The interesting thing about this to me is how this method encourages people to have a good idea of their character concepts before playing. You gave the example of an ability score as a requirement for a feat. Another example would be choosing STR first corrals you into a warrior type, so some idea of a what the player wants to play is almost a must. I wonder how much of the characters' progressions were mapped out before the draft began. And if someone requires many good scores (like a monk or paladin) as opposed to a few (fighter or druid), and they do not acquire the scores they wish, their character concept might blow up in smoke.

This obviously did not happen in your draft, el-remmen, but it seems like it might for some. I'm having a hard time reconciling encouraging (requiring) a solid character concept and progression while not ensuring that the character is a possibility.

#### mofos21

##### First Post
Hypersmurf said:
Does Mofos know he has a +0 Con modifier?

-Hyp.
Of course I know.

It was part of my character concept to have Con as one of the lower, if not the lowest, stats. He has some, let's say "issues", at the moment. And he feels that one of the ways to help solve/deal with these "issues" is for him to physically bulk-up. But with both the emotional stress that these "issues" cause and the physical stress he causes himself by focusing so intently on building muscle, his health ends up suffering slightly.

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