D&D 5E Second Wind: Yes or No?

[Balesir]

It's somewhat silly, but unlimited applicability of healing potions gives me flashing visions of a character, huge and distended like a liquid filled baloon, rolling uncontrollably around the dungeon saying "I'm fine! I'm good! I have full hps!"...

 

[I'm A Banana]

What I think is worth adding is that the existence of surgeless healing helps reinforce what is happening, in the fiction, when a PC spends a surge. Even when a cleric uses Healing Word or Word of Vigour, the PC is not being "divinely healed": the PC, rather, is being divinely inspired - but the inspiration draws on the PC's own inner reserves.

I actually think that's part of the problem with the surge model, personally.

If I have my own inner reserves, why do I need Billy over there to let me access them?

And if Billy is the one with the agency in the situation, the one making the choice, in what way am I tapping my inner reserves. It's not even my turn, and I don't get to roll any dice!

It's a little psychological trick with agency, autonomy, and the sense of control, but since that's our interface, that's how we play the game, it's important to get those aligned with the player expectations.

 

[Klaus]

I actually think that's part of the problem with the surge model, personally.

If I have my own inner reserves, why do I need Billy over there to let me access them?

And if Billy is the one with the agency in the situation, the one making the choice, in what way am I tapping my inner reserves. It's not even my turn, and I don't get to roll any dice!

It's a little psychological trick with agency, autonomy, and the sense of control, but since that's our interface, that's how we play the game, it's important to get those aligned with the player expectations.

But everyone has at least *two* ways to access their own inner reserves (Second Wind and Short Rests). Whatever else Billy can do for you, he's adding onto those two options.

What you posted about "a little psychological trick with agency, autonomy, and the sense of control" is actually the problem with the DDN Hit Dice model, where all your in-combat healing eggs are in the cleric's basket.

 

[pemerton]

If I have my own inner reserves, why do I need Billy over there to let me access them?

In the case of Inspiring Word, the answer to your question is stated in the name of the power. I take the answer to be implicit in the other comparable powers - Healing Word, Majestic Word, Word of Vigour, Battle Cry - the PC who does he healing is speaking the word that inspires and reinvigorates his/her allies. Like Gandalf's speech to Pippin in the film version of RotK.

And if Billy is the one with the agency in the situation, the one making the choice, in what way am I tapping my inner reserves. It's not even my turn, and I don't get to roll any dice!

You tap your inner reserves by continuing to act rather than falling unconscious.

If you've got an alternative mechanic for inspiration that fits within the basic D&D framework, by all means share it! I don't think it's unreasonable that the mechanical agency for inspiration should be with the inspirer rather than the inspired: the subject of the verb rather than the object. Just as with attacking - you don't get to roll dice to parry either.

it's important to get those aligned with the player expectations.

An RPGer raised on Runequest would expect to make a parry roll. D&D players don't. I think it's reasonable for the game to make a call on who gets to act - it's hardly outside the bounds of reasonableness.

 

[D'karr]

An RPGer raised on Runequest would expect to make a parry roll. D&D players don't. I think it's reasonable for the game to make a call on who gets to act - it's hardly outside the bounds of reasonableness.

And in the case of "bringing forth reserves" the D&D player, until 4e, always had to rely on a "healer" to do so. In 4e at least there are multiple ways to "bring forth those reserves" that don't all involve a "healer", or someone with a healstick and UMD to use it. It is also very adjustable based on preference of the campaign right out of the gate.

 

[El Mahdi]

deleted

 

[TwoSix]

I actually think that's part of the problem with the surge model, personally.

If I have my own inner reserves, why do I need Billy over there to let me access them?

And if Billy is the one with the agency in the situation, the one making the choice, in what way am I tapping my inner reserves. It's not even my turn, and I don't get to roll any dice!

Or, contra [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], don't flavor divine healing magic as inspiration. Maybe it does close lacerations and remove bruises and other aches, but is also quite tiring. Like Aes Sedai healing in the Wheel of Time.

 

[Ratskinner]

Second Wind first appeared in Star Wars Saga Edition, where a "bloodied" (half hit points or lower) character could take an action to regain one-quarter of his hit points. This was a daily ability.

In 4e, Second Wind became an encounter resource, and was tied to the concept of healing surges (so you could use it 6 or 7 times per day).

At the moment, DDN has no Second Wind ability. Should it?

It wouldn't bother me. Except that I'd rather HP divorce themselves from physical wounds and all HP recover from a short rest.

 

[Ratskinner]

It would work well if we had actual wounds, distinct from HP. So second wind could recover vigor, but not skin.

Amen. I think its well past time D&D get over this.

 

[pemerton]

Or, contra [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]

Outrageous!