Secret hit points?

[Rya.Reisender]

It definitely wouldn't be my bag. I think that the tension comes from knowing how close the character is to death and, to that end, hit points help with that. So much so that I reveal monster hit points to the players via their hit point bar on Roll20. Everyone starts getting really nervous when the fighter or paladin whacks a monster for big damage and the bar only moves a little.

I don't show monster HP but that still kind of happens due to my narration.

My players would go like: "I'm a bit worried, we already did 20 damage and Rya didn't even say that he is moderately wounded yet."

 

[the Jester]

No thanks. As the DM, I already have plenty to keep track of. No need to add to my workload unless it makes for a noticeable and significant improvement in the game.

 

[5ekyu]

Just a brainstorm I had for a variant to increase tension in combat.

The DM rolls each PC's hit points, but keeps them secret from the players. The player tracks damage, just counting upward towards an unknown limit. When damage equals or exceeds hit points, the PC is at zero, all normal rules apply. If the PC survives and regains hit points, the DM rerolls their hit points and keeps the new total secret.

So basically, players don't know exactly how close to dying they are.

Thoughts?

Would not try this at all.

1 - DND as an RPG has a lot of things where precise HP matters a lot for decisions and uses. You need a lot of rewrite to avoid blowing up very common abilities. the game system assumes knowledge of your character and its written for that so its not an easy choice.

2 - The players need info to make choices that matter. the more the Gm hides needed info the less informed their choices are. The less informed their choices are the less they feel involved in more than just a guessing game as opposed to a playing and planning and using things game.

How much more fun would poker be if you did not know what two of the cards in your hand were thru the entire game?

It works for texas hold'em cuz its a competitive thing where all sides have the same issue *and* its about the betting more than the hand.

Neither of those applies to DND.

Let your player's have the knowledge of their characters they need to make informed choices that matter and let the game be about the amazing stuff they do, not about the info they did not get cuz you know Gm thought it was fun if they were in the dark.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Oh, I don't tell them how many HP the monster has, I just ask them to tally how much damage they've done to a particular foe. Granted it works better for minions - "My arrow does 8 damage to the orc guarding the cage. It's taken 16 total, is it still standing?"

They unofficially track how much damage they deal to bosses anyway, so I may as well let them handle it and make my life easier. Sometimes it makes them sweat that much more, when they've done a pile of damage and the boss just keeps on coming at them

Ah that makes sense - I currently just have a running tally in my campaign notebook for each foe in the combat. Cross out and jot down the new total right next to it. Hmm... I like your point about making them sweat a bit more when they are tracking the total damage dealt and the big bad is still standing. A little meta-gamey, I suppose, but they're doing it anyway in their heads so the difference is in them now knowing exactly what they've dealt. I might just have to experiment with that - Thanks for the idea!

 

[ccs]

Will it increase the tension? Maybe.
Will it increase my workload for no good reason? Definitely.
And it'd absolutely annoy my players.

Since increased workload & annoyed players aren't what I'm aiming for....

 

[Gadget]

I have not played this system at all, so my observations are probably not as valuable, but if the players are still tracking the damage their characters take, and presumably adjusting this number for healing received, One would think that they would get a pretty good idea of what their full hit point total is anyway. I can see how it would add tension, and I'm not sure it would add too much overhead to the DM, as he he just has a static number for each character, the players are still doing most of the tracking, their just tracking damage instead of HP. But it seems like it would add a step each round where a DM would have to check with each play on what damage their character is at and see if it met or exceeded their HP totals in addition to players getting a pretty good idea of what that total was anyway.

Also, what about abilities that reduce the HP maximum? That does seem like it would increase the 'tracking' load on the DM, depending how often it came up.

 

[AmerginLiath]

If you were going to do so, I’d recommend using something akin to the 4e Bloodied condition so that the players have some feedback on when the characters are taking a substantial amount of damage against their total (this might give them a rough estimate of their character’s total, but that will change by level and will be altered over time with THP and the like).

One of the short campaigns which I wasn’t in but observed among college friends back in the 3.0 days was one where all the characters had amnesia and this was done by the DM actually rolling up the characters himself based off chats with the players and then never showing them the sheets — not only did players not know their HP total, they didn’t know their stats or class until they attempted different things. Of course, such a campaign is good for a short one-off rather than something for a DM to run every time. I’d say the same perhaps for the HP idea, since it requires so much bookkeeping (both literally and in terms of keeping players appraised of subjective conditions) on on the DM’s end.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I think if I wanted to play that style of game I'd go with an entirely different system than D&D. I'd pick a system with a lot less numbers.

 

[5ekyu]

Ah that makes sense - I currently just have a running tally in my campaign notebook for each foe in the combat. Cross out and jot down the new total right next to it. Hmm... I like your point about making them sweat a bit more when they are tracking the total damage dealt and the big bad is still standing. A little meta-gamey, I suppose, but they're doing it anyway in their heads so the difference is in them now knowing exactly what they've dealt. I might just have to experiment with that - Thanks for the idea!

I also have been letting my players track the monster HP. Saves me a lot of work. But i also want to try and get Alexa to do it but her score keeper skills suck.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I also have been letting my players track the monster HP. Saves me a lot of work. But i also want to try and get Alexa to do it but her score keeper skills suck.

DM: "Alexa, subtract 15 hitpoints from the Lich"
Alexa: "Calling Mitch"
DM: [facepalm]