Sell me a campaign setting! Now!

[Zarrock God of Evil]

A friend and former player of mine (who is currently living in NYC) has decided to start his first own campaign in October 2003 (i.e. when he will be back here in Germany) - and I get to play!
And it gets better: he's asking the players (to be precise: the 2 players who are his old D&D GMs) what campaign setting they want to play in!!! Alas, I'm not quite sure about the details of many published settings, and I also don't know what settings will be out until this summer...

...so: I need help!


I like (but do not require):
- gritty or dark fantasy
- lots of different cultures for PCs
- exotic and dangerous wilderness areas "where no man/orc/dwarf/whatever has gone before" (or at least for the past 300+ years)
- high compatibility with "standard" WotC stuff (spells, PrCs, etc.)
- interesting "toys" (magic items, steampunk stuff, flying ships, whatever...)


I hate (with very rare exceptions):
- strong metaplots
- Elminster-type NPCs
- Kender
- certain gnomes...


He (the soon-to-be GM) could use:
- good pre-made adventures, especially if they form a series or part of a campaign.



now: What the §!$& is the right setting for us? And why?

Well there are a lot of things that would appeal to you from what I read. I have one personal suggestion which I will follow up with a bit more generic opinions:

Let the DM run you through Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. It's a long adventure - easily expandable - and you can put it in pretty much any setting you want (I think it'll work particularly well in FR and Scarred Lands).

As for your own points:

I like (but do not require):

- gritty or dark fantasy: Ravenloft (only if you're into Gothic), Scarred Lands and the new FR are particularly well-founded for such a campaign - but pretty much any campaign setting can support this given the proper style of Dming...

- lots of different cultures for PCs: Most of the official settings are very well-developed in this area - none has the plethora of cultures on offer that the FR has, though (which some hold against it).

- exotic and dangerous wilderness areas "where no man/orc/dwarf/whatever has gone before" (or at least for the past 300+ years): Most of the major campaign settings feature such areas. In FR for instance, you could set a campaign in the Savage North, in the dinosaur infested Jungles of Chult or in the barren wastelands of the Horde.

- high compatibility with "standard" WotC stuff (spells, PrCs, etc.): FR, KoK and Greyhawk probably rule here - but the guys at S&S are doing such a good job with their Scarred Lands material that you'd probably not notice the difference. None of the settings make any huge alterations to the existing rules. KoK and FR feature accessories that HEAVILY expand your existing options - which is why I would recommend both to a player.

- interesting "toys" (magic items, steampunk stuff, flying ships, whatever...): Well, FR - having the greatest innate potential as a high-magic setting - probably rules this one. The have your examples in abundance (and if you like flying ships you might want to check out Dragonstar and Spelljammer one day).[7B]

And your other points:

I hate (with very rare exceptions):

- strong metaplots - Dragonlance seems to be the most problematic here. In the other settings the meta-plots can often be ignored in most areas of the worlds.

- Elminster-type NPCs - This speaks against FR of course - even though other settings have similar characters. Suffice it to say, no matter which setting you choose, your DM should avoid having all-powerful NPCs constantly meddling in your campaign (and this shouldn't be a problem for a reasonable DM).

- Kender: Well - byebye Dragonlance

- certain gnomes - I'm sure you thinking Tinker Gnomes, you Dragonlance hater you

Anyway that's my thoughs...

-Zarrock

 

[MEG Hal]

I would also suggest Mystic Eye's The Hunt: Rise of Evil setting.

Agreed, great setting USES Bluffside and Freeport as official cities in the setting.

Nothing against the others as well, Oathbound, SL etc...all very good settings.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Re: iron kingdoms

http://www.ironkingdoms.com/

may fit your ideas...


joe b.

Second this one (campign setting out in January), Scarred Lands second.

 

[Sanackranib]

sorcerers

try the Path of Magic book, lots of goodies for sorcerers and bards

 

[The Cardinal]

thanks guys! So far I've got three favorites:

(in no particular order)

Scarred Lands (though it seems to lack a variety in cultures)

Greyhawk (I'd love to play through the RttToeE in this!)

Iron Kingdoms (very cool - if the steampunk elements aren't to much of a turn-off for the other players and the GM)


...so - those questions remain:
What are your opinions on the existing adventures for these three settings? What are the "classic" GH adventures?

 

[Nightfall]

Let's just say I have been very disapointed with EVERY publisher on this score. Every time I hear of a new book dealing with d20/D&D arcane magic I get excited, hoping there will be someting in there that is -just for- sorcerers. Something they get Wizards don't. Something to spice them up. So far, everytime I have been disapointed. There was a very brief bit on sorcerer bloodlines starting on page 66 of Spells and Spellcraft... But it just wasn't enough and not in depth enough.

Oh... and I wasn't that keen on Monte's Sorcerer in the end... I didn't like the adjusted spell list. He seemed to be limiting the definition of what you could do with a sorcerer down to the concepts he liked or thought were effective.

Well as I said there is something about bloodlines in the book. How much more than Spells and Spellcraft, no idea.

One thing to consider from all the People recommending Scarred Lands. It seems to me that it doesn't match to a couple of the poster's listed interests:

1: Metaplot
2: Custom rules
3: Powerful NPCs
4: Cultural diversity in PC choices

I'm not a Scarred Lands expert, but I gather there are issues on those 4 counts of varying severity. Usually when someone mentions culture, it's because they're disatisifed with the way so many fantasy settings put them together without much thought for why they are the way they are...

The rules issue needs more info from the poster. Are they one of those -core rules only- types? Or do they just draw the thing at radical changes like in Sovereign Stone where they toss out the D&D Magic System for their own? Scarred Lands uses a lot of new rules material, but most of it is fairly derivative of core rules concepts. That is... if the bulk of the product line is consistant with the items I have...

So far yes. There's not a lot of new rules other than arcane magic (sorcerers and wizards) generating heat. Oh and the fact there is a clear line between clerics and druids, for the most part.

 

[Nightfall]

Agreed, great setting USES Bluffside and Freeport as official cities in the setting.

Nothing against the others as well, Oathbound, SL etc...all very good settings.

Don't worry Hal. Bluffside is a great product. I just prefer my setting. In any case, I'm going to announce now that there will be a thread coming soon where I'll showcase MEG products. Why? Cause Hal has pictures of me in a compromising position.

 

[Nightfall]

thanks guys! So far I've got three favorites:

(in no particular order)

Scarred Lands (though it seems to lack a variety in cultures)

Greyhawk (I'd love to play through the RttToeE in this!)

Iron Kingdoms (very cool - if the steampunk elements aren't to much of a turn-off for the other players and the GM)


...so - those questions remain:
What are your opinions on the existing adventures for these three settings? What are the "classic" GH adventures?

As it stands the Serpent Amphora Cycle is our "standard" bearer.

The first or rather prequel is the PDF adventure. Here's the link:
The Serpent Amphora

The other two adventures, Serpent in the Fold and Serpent and Scepter are also out and available online.

As for a lack of variety, obviously I missed out on mentioning the fact most elves are wood obssessed tatto artists, dark elves are not drow, (though they have similar traits), many human cultures have different flavors (Shelzarians are a mix of Old Arabain cultures and also a little of more modern sensibilities, Albadian and Darakenee has a lot of tribal culture much like Norse/Celtic tribes), and that's just the tip of many of them.

But again while the NPCs here are little high level, it's not like the epic scale of Faerun or Dragonlance. Your adventurers CAN make a difference and often do. While it's true the magic is high, most people can't afford or won't willing part with a +1 sword of any sort.

 

[kenjib]

...so - those questions remain:
What are your opinions on the existing adventures for these three settings? What are the "classic" GH adventures?

Iron Kingdoms has a trilogy of adventures out. Most people really like them a lot (seem to be a favorite to many). I personally think that while there are many really great, memorable, encounters/locations/NPCs and they are very well written, there is a very serious problem with railroading the characters and "novel writing syndrome" where the author of the modules makes his pet NPCs more important to the story than the PCs can ever hope to be. If the PCs try to take control of things, then the DM will need to wing it because the module expects the players to play nicely at all times -- everything the PCs will do is already pre-scripted for them.

Scarred Lands is just starting to put out a module series but they haven't seemed very interested in putting out modules in general (not much money to be made in modules). I haven't heard much about these modules though.

Greyhawk has a million modules set officially in the world, both the current modules from WotC (although they don't really take advantage of the world much and are really for the most part completely generic adventures in all but name) and all of the old modules for 1e and 2e that can be converted. Some of the all time classics from 1e are here. The good news is that there are tons of modules. The bad news is that most of the good ones are not for 3e. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is in Greyhawk for 3e but is pretty hack-heavy.

All that said, you can really adapt "generic" modules pretty easily to any setting. The only place you might run into trouble is with Iron Kingdoms, because the world has a very unique feel (with steam powered machines and gunpowder) that no other modules out there really relate to, and so would require more heavy adaptation.

 

[Nightfall]

If you'd like I can offer you reviews from the d20 reviews page for at least the "The Serpent in the Fold."

Serpent in the Fold Reviews on d20 review page