Sell me on Psionics
- Thread starter kaomera
- Start date
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
Having played a psion, I have run out of power points on one occasion, and been run dangerously close to being out on multiple other occasions. During these encounters, the wizard kept on trucking, and also had more damage output than I did. Funny how his items seemed to help him, with his Twin and Empower rods, of which there's no printed psionic equivalent.
And novaing is fixed by the threat of future encounters. Being out of ability to influence or participate in the encounter really does kind of suck, and can be life-threatening.
Brad
And novaing is fixed by the threat of future encounters. Being out of ability to influence or participate in the encounter really does kind of suck, and can be life-threatening.
Brad
SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
KarinsDad said:
Oh I've read that post, but the facts you site are hardly conclusive.
First, you can empower a lot of spells, but you still need to make a concentration check and spend a full round action every time after the first...unless you spend a feat to reduce the time. Even with that, you can't move and cast an empowered power after round one. You also have to reliably make a DC20 concentration check, which can be done, but it can't be done automatically without making Con your best stat or spending a feat, or spending money. Does a wizard have to worry about any of that? No. Oh, and psychic meditation requires you to have Wis 13+, so there go some points you might have spent on another stat, like, say, con.
Oh and overchanneling? Well, you also need to spend a feat to do that as well, and it costs you damage, unless you spend a second feat to protect all of your low level powers. If you Empower that energy missile you will always take 3D8 damage. from doing so, because talented also requires you to spend your focus. Once you want to use that energy ball, you're always taking damage when you use it. Now 3D8 damage to a character with, what, 27 HP before Con? Taking that kind of damage to cause an extra five dice of damage is a real trade off.
So if you want to do what you're talking about and not take damage (except when you're empowering, when you always do, you've spent three feats. What could a wizard do with those feats? Well, how about some of the sudden feats? I'll take three sudden maximizes please!
In terms of ignoring the damage cap with a spell, that's just flat out wrong. You can spend more power to do more damage, but the cap is still based on your manifestor level...Unless you overchannel. If you're spending more power, its exactly as if you were casting a higher level spell. So my level 10 wizard is spending the equivilent of 5 power to cast fireball for 10d6, while your psion is spending 10 power to do the same thing. That doesn't even count the fact that my wizard was casting fireball two levels before you could.
So what else do you want?
The bottom line is that psions, wizards and other casters all have tradeoffs they make for their abilities. It seems like these tradeoffs are conveniently ignored when discussing how absolutely awesome they are.
EDIT
Let me add some numbers to my post. Let's take the first three rounds of combat, okay? I'll take my wizard and cast three maximized widened greater firebursts to hit everything within 40' of me for 300 damage.
You'll cast three similar spells doing 45d6+45 for an average of 202 damage. And not move. And take 9D8 damage yourself.
Also edited to make the post less snarky (which really wasn't my intention).
--Steve
Last edited:
kaomera
Explorer
Dannyalcatraz said:
I'll admit that one of the ways I've thought of possibly using Psionics would be an all-psi campaign.
One thing, which is probably (or at least almost) a different topic: My concerns with Psionics (or Incarnum, or most of the stuff from ToM*) is not the rules, balance issues, etc. It's flavor. If I ask "Why not just use (arcane or divine) magic?", I'd prefer there to be a reason other than mechanics. I understand that there are things that one system or the other simply won't do, or will do much better than the other, and that's got to be a consideration. I don't want players to totally throw making an effective character out the window, that just isn't any fun. But I want there to be some consideration of making the character actually "fun" and "cool" and not just powerful, it can come before or after mechanical considerations, whatever.
I kind of dig Dromites, although I'd prefer a LA +0 variant. The Psionic Aboleth and Illithid are much more in tune with the original concepts of these monsters. Given the nature of D&D Psionics, I think I'd expect some source for Psionic power; kigmatzomat's suggestions that they be the only really self-contained magic run pretty much opposite to my own views. A lot of the powers listed don't seem (to me) to be the sort of thing that I would expect to be purely Psionic... Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but without some "why" in game-world terms I think that it would end up being distracting to me.
I guess part of the reason I've posted this is a frustration at the fact that there are a number of players who I think could do really cool things with a Psionic character, but they pretty much don't want to bother with stuff I'm not especially excited by. And there's a lot of stuff that I'm not normally that excited by only because there are other players who will grab for stuff that they think "looks cool", often without fully grasping the rules behind it (generally failing to make a particularly effective character). These are the first people I would expect to jump at Psionics if I open it up, and I'm not excited by the prospect of having to tell someone that he can't use the same options as the other characters because I don't feel that he can handle it (Maybe it wouldn't be as much of a problem, since Psionics isn't super-new and shiny anymore...). Of course I could just let them try and fail, but that isn't all that much fun for me or them. (There are also a couple of players in particular that I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that I shouldn't have in my games in any case, and I'm probably brooding on my games a bit more than I should during the holiday downtime... Just to let you know where my head's at, at the moment.)
Actually, the idea of some kind of external power-source for Psionics could be what I need to make it "click" for me. Depending on what that source was and it's (or those who control it) agendas and motivations where, I can see some cool possibilities... Far Realms or Shadow -type stuff, or even something (dead god, perhaps?) lurking in the deep, deep Underdark...
A question: Does the XPH completely supersede the Psionics Handbook, or would I need (/want) to pick that up as well?
*Ironically, the one thing I really dug from ToM was the Shadocaster, which I have mostly avoided because it simply seems too limited as written...)
PS: To those discussing who's math is more awesomer than who's, I know this isn't my thread and I can't tell you what to post and what not to, but at this point there's so much acrimony going around that I just don't care about your numbers, and if you keep going the way you are going I'm afraid the thread is going to end up closed. Again, I don't claim ownership of this thread, this is just my opinion; if you actually read all that, then I thank you for your time...
Nifft
Penguin Herder
kaomera said:
Yes.
You do NOT need the 3.0 Psionics Handbook.
Do NOT even look at it. It's really quite bad.
You can get almost everything you need from the Psionics section of the SRD for free. The stuff that's missing are "product identity" critters like Mind Flayers and Thri-Kreen.
kaomera said:
Yeah, I dug it too, but the mechanics are so bad... however, for bonus irony points, I'm re-writing it using Psionics mechanics but keeping Shadowcaster flavor.
Cheers, -- N
Similar Threads
