Masquerade
First Post
Olive said:
PHBII introduces some great new classes, spells, and feats. I can see other pieces of the book being useful, particularly to new players, but I found it worth the purchase based on crunch alone.
Sell me on Wizards books published since Complete Divine
- Thread starter Olive
- Start date
PHBII introduces some great new classes, spells, and feats. I can see other pieces of the book being useful, particularly to new players, but I found it worth the purchase based on crunch alone.
Asmor
First Post
In terms of bang for your buck, you can't go wrong with PHB 2 and MIC
PHB 2 is, quite simply, the most universally-useful accessory available, probably even more so than the Monster Manual. There's literally a little something in there for everyone. I'd wager that 90% of characters could use something from it, and at least half of the people with access to it DO use it. Plus, the lists and tables in the back of the book are incredible for coming up with NPCs and high-level PCs quickly and easily. They give suggested feats, spells, skills, equipment, etc for almost every class in the PHB, PHB 2 and the original 4 complete books.
Magic Item Compendium is also a must-have, imho, if you're a DM. The tables in the back are worth their weight in gold whether you're rolling for treasure (or even picking it out) or trying to outfit a new PC. They've got tables for every equipment slot, listing everything in the MIC and DMG by price so you can, say, budget out 2000 gold for an arm piece and then quickly find what your options are in that range for that slot.
Lots of other great books, of course. I'm a huge fan of the entire complete series (although Complete Psionic was slightly disappointing), and Tome of Battle is freaking awesome.
PHB 2 is, quite simply, the most universally-useful accessory available, probably even more so than the Monster Manual. There's literally a little something in there for everyone. I'd wager that 90% of characters could use something from it, and at least half of the people with access to it DO use it. Plus, the lists and tables in the back of the book are incredible for coming up with NPCs and high-level PCs quickly and easily. They give suggested feats, spells, skills, equipment, etc for almost every class in the PHB, PHB 2 and the original 4 complete books.
Magic Item Compendium is also a must-have, imho, if you're a DM. The tables in the back are worth their weight in gold whether you're rolling for treasure (or even picking it out) or trying to outfit a new PC. They've got tables for every equipment slot, listing everything in the MIC and DMG by price so you can, say, budget out 2000 gold for an arm piece and then quickly find what your options are in that range for that slot.
Lots of other great books, of course. I'm a huge fan of the entire complete series (although Complete Psionic was slightly disappointing), and Tome of Battle is freaking awesome.
Olive
Explorer
Nightfall said:Olive,
Just quit D&D. Go d20 instead.
Nah. I've bought lots of non-Wizards stuff in my time, but to be honest I like most of the WotC books and find the basic design values fit well into my game. Most non-core stuff is more difficult to dump in and I'm time-poor in the most serious way.
Olive
Explorer
Nightfall said:
It's not loyalty. If I got from other stuff what I get from WotC books, I'd buy them instead.
Dungeon and Dragon are a bummer (esp. Dungeon) - Erik had made them pretty damn awesome! But I wasn't buying them anyway and online might mean more affordable for people like me outside of the US. But I'm sure that's for another thread...
Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Olive,
Don't bet on affordibilty via online. I've seen the WotC PDFs. They are as expensive as the full cost of the print book. If that's how they do business online, I'm not sure a subscription is worth it.
Still whatever, you do what you do. Me, I'm sticking with Paizo.
Don't bet on affordibilty via online. I've seen the WotC PDFs. They are as expensive as the full cost of the print book. If that's how they do business online, I'm not sure a subscription is worth it.
Still whatever, you do what you do. Me, I'm sticking with Paizo.
Joshua Randall
Legend
Nightfall, do you have an "off" switch? Seriously, dude, give it a rest.Nightfall said:
This is a thread in which someone is asking for advice about WotC books to buy. Saying "WotC books suck" isn't helpful.
Joshua Randall
Legend
I will second (third? fourth?) the recommendations for PH2. What you get, from memory:
* 3 new base classes: duskblade (yet another fighter-wizard, but this one is actually good), knight (a defensive-oriented tank), and dragon shaman (gains beneficial "auras", sort of like the marshall)
* variant class features for all of the core PH classes plus selected other classes such as swashbuckler, and, uh, some other ones I can't remember
* the variant Druid class feature is worth the price of the book alone, IMHO
* new feats, and they are damn good... some may even appear TOO good, depending upon your tastes; lots of feats to make single-classes fighters better
* a smatternig of new spells, including some very interesting ones that have growing levels of effect depending upon how long you spend casting the spell
* rebuild and retraining rules, so there is an official way for a PC to dump a no-longer-desired feat for a new one, or even change races or classes -- also two sample adventure sites to go with these rules
* Affiliations, a set of rules around groups the PCs can join, then gain actual tangible benefits that are neatly tied into role-playing hooks... there's an example of play that goes with these rules that made me more excited about D&D than I have been in years
* note, the affiliation rules are getting extensive support in the Savage Tide Adventure Path in Dungeon magazine
* quick-build tables for generating N/PCs, with suggested skills, feats, equipment, spells, etc. -- this is also worth its weight in gold
All in all, PH2 is extremely solid.
DMG2 is a fantastic book also, not quite as universally strong as PH2, but plenty good. Ask if you want details.
* 3 new base classes: duskblade (yet another fighter-wizard, but this one is actually good), knight (a defensive-oriented tank), and dragon shaman (gains beneficial "auras", sort of like the marshall)
* variant class features for all of the core PH classes plus selected other classes such as swashbuckler, and, uh, some other ones I can't remember
* the variant Druid class feature is worth the price of the book alone, IMHO
* new feats, and they are damn good... some may even appear TOO good, depending upon your tastes; lots of feats to make single-classes fighters better
* a smatternig of new spells, including some very interesting ones that have growing levels of effect depending upon how long you spend casting the spell
* rebuild and retraining rules, so there is an official way for a PC to dump a no-longer-desired feat for a new one, or even change races or classes -- also two sample adventure sites to go with these rules
* Affiliations, a set of rules around groups the PCs can join, then gain actual tangible benefits that are neatly tied into role-playing hooks... there's an example of play that goes with these rules that made me more excited about D&D than I have been in years
* note, the affiliation rules are getting extensive support in the Savage Tide Adventure Path in Dungeon magazine
* quick-build tables for generating N/PCs, with suggested skills, feats, equipment, spells, etc. -- this is also worth its weight in gold
All in all, PH2 is extremely solid.
DMG2 is a fantastic book also, not quite as universally strong as PH2, but plenty good. Ask if you want details.
Particle_Man
Explorer
PH2 would definitely be at the top of my list. I liked Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel too, and Complete Arcane has a place in my heart for introducing the Warlock, but for sheer utility you cannot beat the PH2. It has a tank that works (Knight) and fighter/mage that works (Duskblade) a cool sneaky character (Beguiller), alternative character class options (for the basic 11, plus some others), feats that make the fighter suck less at high levels, etc.
For "theme" books, I like "Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords" for Wuxia action (dripping with flavour!), and "Expanded Psionics Handbook". But that really depends on what you want in your campaign, of course. Although I think XPH can be stripped of its flavour and used as a decent spell points system if you want to replace wizards and sorcerors.
For "theme" books, I like "Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords" for Wuxia action (dripping with flavour!), and "Expanded Psionics Handbook". But that really depends on what you want in your campaign, of course. Although I think XPH can be stripped of its flavour and used as a decent spell points system if you want to replace wizards and sorcerors.
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