[semi-Rant] As a DM, does item creation ever get you down?

[kengar]

I was reading this thread over in rules:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44471

and it brought home to me how much the 3e style of dealing with magic items gets to me. I actually canceled last night's session because I was just too tired to run anything. There were a lot of real-life reasons for that (getting ready for a baby, etc.) but part of the reason was that I had nothing prepped. The reason I had nothing prepped was that I had spent every bit of "DM" energy this past week answering questions from the players about what items they could buy or have made while in town.

The party had just finished a big fight with some very gnasty gnolls and one PC was killed in the process, they had a hint of the return of an earlier foe and got lots of good treasure. Everyone had a blast and I was pumped up from running such a successful adventure.

Then they got to town

The haggling, the wheedling, the quoting of item creation rules & prices from the DMG. The e-mails, the phone calls,

I know that this is as much a function of my group as it is the rules (if not moreso), but it seems that every time my group gets some cash or loot, this happens and it just wears me out. I also realize that I -as DM- am probably too permissive about these things, but I know the players enjoy it, so I don't want to ruin their fun.

I applaud the fact that 3e ironed out some of the ambiguity regarding magic items that had been the norm in earlier editions, but now PCs are so dependent upon items and they are so "commoditized" that it's BORING. There's no point in giving them a magic sword, they'll only sell it in the next town.

I know, I know. I could make items & creation rarer, etc. but the current game is set in Faerun which is -almost by definition- high magic. Also, I don't want to "nerf" the players by not letting them have access to magic that keeps them viable against tougher opponents.

I don't really have a point here, just mostly venting. But does anyone else -as DM or Player- ever find that the "everything has a GP value" and "I have Keen added to my +1 Longsword of Frost" is a bit annoying?

(end rant)

 

[MerakSpielman]

Just remember to have sold-back used items only yield 1/2 market price.

The real problem for me is when they settle down to make and sell brand new magic items. The potential for obscene profit is.... great.

 

[hong]

I don't really have a point here, just mostly venting. But does anyone else -as DM or Player- ever find that the "everything has a GP value" and "I have Keen added to my +1 Longsword of Frost" is a bit annoying?

Not me. In fact, I like it so much that I'm letting my players make new items without even spending gold! Just XP (but lots of it).


Hong "imbuing items: step 6 in the creeping HEROization of D&D" Ooi

 

[Vaxalon]

Nope. Doesn't bother me a bit.

If they want something made or done for them, they have to find a wizard (RP potential) get an interview with him (RP potential) and convince him to work with them (more RP potential). That's what the game is about.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I do not have that problem. I ruled long ago that magic item costs are half in gold and half in exotic materials.

I also rarely let a item creating spellcaster have a very large inventory. They are by special order only for all items but scrolls and simple potions.

So if a Player wants some unusual item they can expect the wizard they hire to make it to give them a laundry list materials.

One example was when the fighter wanted a vest of strength. The wizard said to make such an item he would need the skinned hide of a Grey Render. This foe was well within the power of the party, but it would still require a trip and then hunting said creature down.

 

[WayneLigon]

I know, I know. I could make items & creation rarer, etc. but the current game is set in Faerun which is -almost by definition- high magic. ..."I have Keen added to my +1 Longsword of Frost" is a bit annoying?
(end rant)

Faerun is a 'high magic' world, but that doesn't nessesarily mean 'common magic'. Just your example above: Keen takes a 10th level caster AND someone who has Create Magic Arms and Armor. I don't think the combination is as common as some people assume. A wizard only gets x number of feats and I think it's likely that most wizards place those in metamagic feats, Brew Potion and Craft Wonderous or Craft Wand.

A few runs with the random city generator set on Metropolis (Silverymoon has @37,000 people in it) show about 4-5 wizards over 8th. Most Realms cities along the Sword Coast can have populations in the 100,000 range, though, so let's be generous and make that 25 wizards 8th and over, to account for the high magic level and that many of these cities is going to have some kind of wizard school.

You can adjust that 25 figure in a lot of ways. Let's say that a fifth of those are in government positions and thus too busy. Of the 20, a third of them don't have that feat. Of that 14, 2 are charatans that'll take your cash and teleport off somewhere, or they're evil, etc. Four are too high level to bother with the likes of making a sword. Of the 8, then, there might be any number of reasons that they simply don't have the time or the inclination.

They might have two or three people already lined up for enchantments. They might be sick. You never know. Just don't let the adventueres assume that they can go into a city and treat it like Wal-Mart. Speed and convenience are not the name of the game.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I've run into some of the same issues as you, although I've worked fairly hard at making it more than "choose one from column A, one from column B."

I've been wanting to do something to make item creation a little more "RP" related rather than just "buy it off the rack."

There are two things I've done/thought about doing:

Making it tougher to find a buyer for an item - I make a Gather Info check for the PC to locate a buyer for any given item, DC 10+1/1,000gp value. Each check represent 1d6-3 days worth of canvassing likely spots. The presumption is that that is in a big city. No matter what you roll, you'll never sell that Vorpal Blade in the 400 person village. I've considered also allowing a Knowledge: Arcana roll of the same DC to substitute, figuring that some buyers may be easier found through arcane contacts.

Specific expensive magic items are almost never found for sale. You may want to buy a Thundering Mace +2, but you may have to settle for the +1 flaming flail instead, if you MUST buy a magic weapon. Small stuff (1,000 gp or less) can be found from time to time.

Making it less than automatic to MAKE an item - I'm thinking of making Wizards research formulae for specific items. A Knowledge Arcana roll (DC 10+1/1,000gp value again) to figure out the formula for an item. Boots of Elvenkind? That's pretty easy. Vorpal Blade? That's a little tougher. Probably not going to find that at the local hedge mage's component shop.

One thing I'm considering implementing for my next campaign world (which I'm just beginning) is a series of Magical Academies that specialize in certain magical "themes" (not schools). For example, an Academy dedicated to travellers may specialize in making boots of speed. They'll treat that formula like a Guild Secret - and that will make it more difficult to figure out the formula for that item, as the Academy will protect those trade secrets.

In essence, I want to channel the item creation rules so that they open up avenues of roleplay and adventure rather than sit there on their own. It will help me keep consistent with how I adjudicate such things.

 

[Datt]

Don't forget about minimum caster level and creation times. I just crafted a new axe for my dwarf and wanted it enchanted to a +5. I had to go out and actively find a caster of at least 15th level with the feat. We are based in Phlan and I stay in the dwarven stronghold just north of there, we call it Steelhall, not sure if that is the true name or not. There weren't any dwarven clerics that high, we had been under siege from an army of giants just a few months ago and lost alot of people. Sure I could try the elves, but I just really don't like elves. So I had to go into Phlan. Going over to Hillsfar is completely out of the question given the current regime. There was only 1 caster 15th level. Luckily he happen to have the feat. Bad part was he is the Bishop of the church of Mystra and thus a very busy person. Luckily though my group had done alot of work for the church and one of the party members was a Dwemokeeper (SP?) of Mystra. He agreed to enchant my axe, but said that he was going to require me to go an a quest for the church to get some special ingredients used in the creation process. So before he will even start the process I have to go on a quest. Then even after he does start it is going to take 50 days! So yeah I have the money, but actually finding someone is hard. And then I have to wait another 2 months before I get it!
In your example "Adding Keen to my +1 longsword of Frost" would cost him 10k and he would have to wait at least 10 days to get his weapon back. So that is a week is has to sit around without his weapon. There is potenial for to happen right there. See how he likes getting ambushed with his trusty sword in the shop!

 

[Datt]

DC 10+1/1,000gp value.

The only problem I have with this is when you get to higher levels. Like my +5 axe. That is a 50,000gp item. At level 15 that is not really absorb to have. But by your standards that would be a DC 60!! That puts an non-epic item up into epic levels! You might want to make some kind of adjustment for that somehow. I am not sure how but you might want to bump it up to +1/5,000 gp once you get up to a higher level.

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

I suppose if I allowed item creation to be as easy as the books make it, it would bring me down, but I don;t so it doesn't. I am a player in a game where the GM allows us to and it seems to me to be a pain and way to easy to build items, especially if you have a gm that just goes by the formula and does no interaction. In my game if you want to create an item you better be ready to do go on some quests to get the right ingredients etc. Of course I run a low magic game I guess you could say, or at least low compared to FR or the amount given in the core books.
Ken