Sequestering Strike Instakill?

[Terramotus]

This came up in our game tonight. So, we have an Avenger with the Sequestering Strike level 3 encounter power. He's a Pursuing Avenger, so on a hit with the power he is able to teleport the enemy a number of squares equal to 1 + his Dex mod. He then teleports into a square adjacent to the enemy.

We are adventuring in Sharn, so there are lots of ledges handy. It's the Avenger's position that he can choose to teleport a given enemy 10 feet out from a ledge and himself adjacent to a ledge, allowing him to effectively instakill an opponent he can hit, and allowing himself a Saving Throw to avoid falling (p284 PHB).

This certainly bears its own risks. The other option is to teleport the enemy adjacent to the ledge, allowing it a saving throw, and himself to safety, which while not as powerful, is certainly safer. Regardless, once per encounter as long as he's within 20 feet of a ledge he can force an opponent he can hit to have a 45% chance of instant death.

It was some of the group's position (myself included) that the enemy should be allowed the Saving Throw to prevent the first case of unavoidable death using the falling rules. However, the Avenger states that this is not allowed, as the teleported creature is never within actual reach of the ledge to catch it to avoid falling.

The actual text in question:

Catching Yourself: If a power or a bull rush forces you over a precipice or into a pit, you can immediately make a saving throw to avoid going over the edge. This saving throw works just like a normal saving throw, except you make it as soon as you reach the edge, not at the end of your turn.

Thoughts?

 

[Tuft]

Thoughts?

The DMG p44 table "Fall Severity by Character Level", lists how steep falls you should encounter depending on your level. Since you put in a fall outside of that table, undesirable effects show up.

 

[keterys]

More specifically, your game will be a much more productive and safe one if you _always_ need to teleport to a place you can stand and largely act as if the forced movement rules applied.

So, no teleporting straight up to take falling damage, or off a ledge to take falling damage, or through a tiny pinhole into a vat of lava, or...

 

[mach1.9pants]

There are many teleport effects in the game, and there have been several threads arguing this sort of thing to and fro. However there are no rules that effect this, a blind spot in the design so far.

However I would not allow anyone to teleport any body or thing into a square that s not a legal square for that creature, inside a rock, under lava, over a cliff. It stops all this rubbish, no encounter power should ever auto kill on a hit (save and die stayed with 3E thankfully). This is a legal loop hole that the DM has every right to close, hard.

 

[Mort_Q]

Thoughts?

Who in Sharn doesn't have a Feather Fall Talisman?

 

[Tuft]

Who in Sharn doesn't have a Feather Fall Talisman?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but having a feather fall talisman "only" keeps you from getting killed by the fall - you are still very much removed from the current fight.

It may be an important distinction for PCs, but not so important for monsters that exist only for that very fight.

 

[isd]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but having a feather fall talisman "only" keeps you from getting killed by the fall - you are still very much removed from the current fight.

It may be an important distinction for PCs, but not so important for monsters that exist only for that very fight.

You knock enough enemies off ledges (and they survive) and your characters are going to start sleeping with one eye open.

I think any culture living on the edge of high cliffs would have cheap falling damage prevention be it talismans, flying, or other. Most wildlife would be flying creatures.

What works for the PC's also works for the monsters. Give the players a scare by teleporting them off a short ledge. don't kill them but make it hurt and they may be okay with a rule change. Once they see an instant kill in their characters future that is.

 

[CapnZapp]

So, to summarize: there is nothing wrong with the power. Unlike what the thread title implies, Sequestering Strike does not cause insta-kills.

Instead, you as the DM must take responsibility for this.

 

[brehobit]

My house rule is to say you can only teleport people to unsafe spaces you could slide them to. So I'd allow the save either way, but if they fall, they fall.

 

[keterys]

Course, one easy approach is to just say that Sharn bears air elemental magic upon many of its walkways that protect those who fall from them - in some cases throwing them back up, in other cases wafting them gently down to the next safe landing, what have you.

Some areas of Sharn, rarely ventured at low level, might have more dangerous drops without this protective magic, of course.