Set to Receive Charge

[Felnar]

i asked this question in another thread but its wasnt quite on topic, so no one responded

if you ready a spear (not a reach weapon) to receive a charge, with what attack could do double damage? IE. How else other than using a reach weapon to provoke a movement AoO, can you make an attack for double damage?
Is readying to receive the same as to readying an action to attack when someone becomes adjacent?

 

[Ranger REG]

i asked this question in another thread but its wasnt quite on topic, so no one responded

if you ready a spear (not a reach weapon) to receive a charge, with what attack could do double damage? IE. How else other than using a reach weapon to provoke a movement AoO, can you make an attack for double damage?

ell, I don't know how others resolve it, but trigger is worded correctly, I usually resolve the attack as soon as the charging opponent enters into the weapon's threatened area. In the spear's case, it's 5 feet.

Is readying to receive the same as to readying an action to attack when someone becomes adjacent?

Hmm. Good question. I guess it depends on how the trigger is worded when the PC ready an action. If the PC ready his action against a charge attack then the trigger must be a charge attack. All other attacks are ignored.

 

[Krud]

Hmm. Good question. I guess it depends on how the trigger is worded when the PC ready an action. If the PC ready his action against a charge attack then the trigger must be a charge attack. All other attacks are ignored.

I used to use a longspear (half-orc paying homage to Grummsh) and my DM had the same mindset. The problem is, is that its more likely for someone to see that you are readying and holding a spear (or other settable weapon) and just walk in for a normal attack (assuming they're only a move away) to negate the readied action.

In other words would you rather have a guaranteed attack with normal damage or a possible attack for double damage IF your opponent is silly enough to charge you while he sees you waiting for something with a spear in your hands. For a special weapon ability I think its crap and argued you should get the readied attack no matter what, but only double damage if they charge.

I was overruled, so the ability became useless except against low int critters/animals.

This was ignoring the whole reach/AOO side of things too. You'd probably only get normal damage on the AOO with a reach weapon if they charged (1 attack at double damage, 1 AOO at normal damage) assuming they only had 5ft reach

I'm curious how other people see this matter though....

 

[the Jester]

This came up in our last session. I ruled that you can ready against an enemy coming within reach, and that if they are charging you get the double damage.

 

[Felnar]

This was ignoring the whole reach/AOO side of things too. You'd probably only get normal damage on the AOO with a reach weapon if they charged (1 attack at double damage, 1 AOO at normal damage) assuming they only had 5ft reach

why do you think the AoO wouldnt also be double damage?

and what happens if you add in the hold the line feat? would that AoO attack be at double damage?

 

[Infiniti2000]

You specifically have to ready the weapon against a charge. Readying it against non-charging characters doesn't work for the double damage against charging characters. Now, it might be fine to rule that way, but I don't think the rules support that view point. If you do ready it against a charge and you additionally get an AoO against a charging character, your AoO also deals double damage. I see nothing that would say otherwise on that issue.

Obviously, if you ready against a charge on intelligent opponents, you might have less success. On the other hand, if an enemy was ordered to charge your position, he might do so anyways. But, this question brings up another point. Can you notice someone readying an action and, even if so, can you detect what the action is they are readying? This is not clear in the rules, so you have some leeway and judgment calls to make.

 

[Krud]

You specifically have to ready the weapon against a charge. Readying it against non-charging characters doesn't work for the double damage against charging characters. Now, it might be fine to rule that way, but I don't think the rules support that view point. If you do ready it against a charge and you additionally get an AoO against a charging character, your AoO also deals double damage. I see nothing that would say otherwise on that issue.

The SRD says this:
Spear: A spear can be thrown. If you use a ready action to set a spear against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character.

It just seems silly to me to not get your readied attack if say the enemy just double moves or runs up into your threatened area instead. I agree that if the enemy isn't charging you shouldn't get double damage, its just the losing your readied attack that I think is a bit harsh. Reading the SRD quote word for word it does refer to 'set a spear against a charge' but it doesn't adequately explain exactly what this readied action is. The word charge could lead you to believe that this is the specific trigger required for the readied attack.

I interpret it as 'if you ready this weapon to attack an enemy entering the area which you threaten and that enemy is charging then the attack does double damage. If the enemy is not charging, you may attack for normal damage' rather than 'If you ready the weapon to attack any enemy that charges into the area which you threaten you can attack for double damage. If an enemy enters your area, but is not charging you don't get your readied attack'

The AOO is something I consider to be entirely seperate. If you think the AOO of opportunity gets double damage too then I think it becomes more like using the weapon 'this way' rather than the double damage being linked to a readied action.

And as to the person noticing you readying or waiting for something, I agree that that is something not really covered in the rules. If your DM says it appears as something overt such as wedging the butt of your spear into the dirt and placing your foot behind it then you're in trouble.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It just seems silly to me to not get your readied attack if say the enemy just double moves or runs up into your threatened area instead. I agree that if the enemy isn't charging you shouldn't get double damage, its just the losing your readied attack that I think is a bit harsh.

I disagree that it's harsh. Instead I look upon it as a risk factor for gaining a significant benefit.

Reading the SRD quote word for word it does refer to 'set a spear against a charge' but it doesn't adequately explain exactly what this readied action is. The word charge could lead you to believe that this is the specific trigger required for the readied attack.

Continue reading the SRD, specifically the section on Charge: "Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character." Note that it's specifically against a charging character. In all places, it seems quite evident that the ready must be made against a character using the Charge action. However, technically, that character could be charging someone else and go through (or end up in) your threatened area.

I interpret it as 'if you ready this weapon to attack an enemy entering the area which you threaten and that enemy is charging then the attack does double damage. If the enemy is not charging, you may attack for normal damage' rather than 'If you ready the weapon to attack any enemy that charges into the area which you threaten you can attack for double damage. If an enemy enters your area, but is not charging you don't get your readied attack'

I don't agree that that's the way the rules state it, but on the other hand, I don't feel it's really unbalanced that way. It certainly makes it much more attractive to wield those few weapons that allow it, but obviously those people wielding such weapons will always ready them. After all, there's no downside to it. Just always ready for a charge (when you ready) and you'll always get your attack whether or not someone charges.

 

[Artoomis]

... It certainly makes it much more attractive to wield those few weapons that allow it, but obviously those people wielding such weapons will always ready them. After all, there's no downside to it. Just always ready for a charge (when you ready) and you'll always get your attack whether or not someone charges.

Well, there is indeed a downside. The chance you might get no attack at all.

I see a possible sequence to be:

1. Ready an attack to recieve a charge and do double damage or make an attack if they don't charge and only approach normally (a stretch for readying an action, but not entirely unreasonable).

2a. Opponent sees you are ready and decides to attack someone else instead.

2b. Opponent charges.

2c. Opponent sees you are ready and decides to attack anyway, but without charging.

Results:

3a. You wasted an action.

3b. You get to try for double damage.

3c. You get to do a regular single attack as they approach.

You limit your options with a Ready Action.

 

[Infiniti2000]

What's the downside? There's no downside to readying against a charge if you allow them to attack even characters that don't charge. With such a weapon, you always ready against a charge.

I'm not sure you're talking about the same point.