Sexism in your campaign settings

[S'mon]

Fair enough, but the question is how your players see it. And one of them has already posted that it seems the male players dominate the game. This may be personality type, but honestly, it's also generally a gender thing--in conversation, men are more likely to ignore and interrupt women. I'm not saying they're doing it on purpose. They're probably not even aware of it. But you have players who are not having fun, and are complaining publicly.

It's easy as a GM to respond to the kid who's always got his hand up, but you really have to develop a habit of saying "Hold that thought, Bob. Alice, what are you doing this round?" if it gets out of hand.

Sure, I agree with this completely. Men are more likely to ignore & interrupt women, and women are often reluctant to engage in the dominance games that establish a pecking order in a group, which can disadvantage them. I definitely feel I need to make more of an effort to pay equal attention to each player - and this isn't entirely a gender thing, male players can get ignored too.

 

[S'mon]

I think what S'mon should consider is changing the attitude of the NPCs towards these specific characters.

They are 15th level and must have achieved something by that time, which has been noted. And probably, many of their deeds have furthered the country as well.

These are individuals, who risk their life for the country and they obviously can make a difference there.

I'd probably just have the NPCs see beyond their borders of traditionalism somewhat and see them as experienced veterans and valuable consultants, male of female, fighter or spellcaster, that shouldn't make a whole lot of difference at this point, where they already have proven their usefulness (which is more of a guess, of course ).

Hi Thanee - yes this is right of course, the PCs are very much powers to be reckoned with and I should aim to get that across more in-game. The corollary though is that the PCs need to 'step on up' to their potential - my approach has been that if PCs seem unsure of themselves, NPCs pick up on that. I should prob look more to Diplomacy etc rolls to obviate possible problems there (rem our previous discussion?)

 

[hong]

It's like saying "And over here we have a large kingdom where everybody is so altruistic and law-abiding that there is no poverty and no crime." Now, some fantasy stories do have that - LOTR and Roddenberry Star Trek spring to mind - so it's not impossible.

And heaven help people who think LotR is a valid thing to emulate when it comes to fantasy gaming.

You can remove prejudice from the human heart, or greed, or sloth, or rage, or self-interest and cost-benefit analysis. But it will require you to consider the extent of the changes to human nature in your game.

Note that removing/reducing gender bias with regard to the dominant social structure is not the same as "removing prejudice from the human heart".

 

[reanjr]

I don't, certainly not in this campaign. I thought I had a fair number of male & femle NPCs; it may have been that I haven't presented the female ones in positions of authority very well, eg the high priestesses seem to be seen as pretty passive. Also whenever a male ruler has a female magist/wizard the players (m&f) seem to assume the female spellcaster is little more than a concubine to the ruler, which seems weird to me, it's not intentional on my part & I'm not sure where they got that from.

Maybe because all of your female wizards are hot? Describe the next one as rotund with a pockmarked face and see what they think.

 

[S'mon]

In the end, I think it's important to note that playing in a sexist culture is inherently sexist in real life, because it forces a female gamer to choose between playing her own sex, or being treated as an equal in the game world, while a male player can play his own sex without any negative RP repercussions.

That's the crux of the matter, yup. When I started the current campaign all the players were male, so this didn't come up. I could have run a canpaign in a much more gender-equitable area of the same planet, but it's a bit late now as SB says.

Re adventurers - yup, female adventurers can advance within 'adventurer' society without noticeable sexism, the problem is more that my game is heavily political and the PCs are seeking roles within the mainstream culture; most of which is loosely based on early-16th-century western Europe.

 

[reanjr]

It's the fantasy equivalent of a CCG!


Hong "now you gots your black slaves, your white slaves, your red slaves, your green slaves and your blue slaves..." Ooi

I laughed out loud at that post. That's so rare for me that I won't belittle it by abbreviating it.

 

[S'mon]

Maybe because all of your female wizards are hot? Describe the next one as rotund with a pockmarked face and see what they think.

Hmm...

 

[reanjr]

And heaven help people who think LotR is a valid thing to emulate when it comes to fantasy gaming.

LotR is only egalitarian because there were no women to be sexist towards. Our only two examples of women who did absolutely ANYTHING, were Galadriel and Arwen, who were elves and so don't really count.

So the point is moot, anyway

 

[Celtavian]

re

That's the crux of the matter, yup. When I started the current campaign all the players were male, so this didn't come up. I could have run a canpaign in a much more gender-equitable area of the same planet, but it's a bit late now as SB says.

Re adventurers - yup, female adventurers can advance within 'adventurer' society without noticeable sexism, the problem is more that my game is heavily political and the PCs are seeking roles within the mainstream culture; most of which is loosely based on early-16th-century western Europe.

So, what exactly do you do when one of the female PC's says something?

Do you have the NPC's say stuff "What does a woman know about battle and politics?" or "Get thee to the kitchen."



What exactly does the group do?

For some reason, I picture the male players in your group all going silent and just staring in disbelief at Stalking Blue for even daring to speak. Then making comments such as "know your place woman, speak when spoken to" or just ignoring her and going back to their discussion.

I've never heard of a woman being so uncomfortable at the gaming table while actually roleplaying. Usually some geek male gamer is hitting on them or making lewd comments.

Can you or Stalking blue give some specific example within the context of the campaign that is making the female players feel so out of place in the campaign world?

 

[S'mon]

Do you have the NPC's say stuff "What does a woman know about battle and politics?" or "Get thee to the kitchen."

Er, no.

I thought the sexism in the primary campaign area was pretty mild - often harder to be taken seriously as a woman than as a man, but certainly not impossible. & it would be pretty stupid of the male NPCs to say such things to the (extremely powerful) female PCs, anyway.

The male players are certainly not the kind to hit on the female players, either; I think it's more the female players often feel ignored or marginalised.