Shadow Conjuration

[Cabral]

I've always like the Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation lines

What I was wondering if Shadow Conjuration used to duplicate a Summon Monster a Devil is (by the rules) a lawful, evil spell (since you're summoning a shadow copy of a devil, not an actual devil)? And, should it be?

Second, I was thinking about have shadow plane creatures summoned through shadow conjuration be more potent. Either, the creatures come off a higher list (Summon Monster IV) or are more real (maybe +10% or +20%) ... not that I'm positive that any shadow creatures are available by Summon Monster (I would think that you could substitute the shadow template for the celestial or fiendish templates.)

 

[Nifft]

There are some shadow creatures in the MM, for example the Shadow Mastiff, which is on the summon monster V list.

-- N

 

[Dragon-Slayer]

This is something I would like to do in my game too. A discipline that focuses on shadow magic just as some specialize in elemental magic. There is a shadow template in a Dragon magazine for characters (I can look up the issue number, I was just persuing it the other day) that could be adapted for most anything. I would be interested in seeing where you go with this.

 

[Odysseus]

I've always like the Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation lines

What I was wondering if Shadow Conjuration used to duplicate a Summon Monster a Devil is (by the rules) a lawful, evil spell (since you're summoning a shadow copy of a devil, not an actual devil)? And, should it be?

Second, I was thinking about have shadow plane creatures summoned through shadow conjuration be more potent. Either, the creatures come off a higher list (Summon Monster IV) or are more real (maybe +10% or +20%) ... not that I'm positive that any shadow creatures are available by Summon Monster (I would think that you could substitute the shadow template for the celestial or fiendish templates.)

Yes shadow conjuration can be used to summon monsters, and shadow monsters are on the summon monster lists. Remember any monster summoned via shadow conjuration is part illusion/shadow. So summoning a shadow monster is already a more powerful use of the spell than normal.

 

[magic_gathering2001]

You mean less right? You can make a save to reduce it's Attack and saves and stuff.

 

[Cabral]

Yes shadow conjuration can be used to summon monsters, and shadow monsters are on the summon monster lists. Remember any monster summoned via shadow conjuration is part illusion/shadow. So summoning a shadow monster is already a more powerful use of the spell than normal.

per the RAW, I don't see how.
There is no inherent benefit to shadow conjuring a Shadow Mastiff over a Fiendish Dire Boar ... Assuming they were equally good choices for summon monster V, they are equally affected by the diminishment of disbelief from shadow conjuration (ignoring for the moment that shadow conjuration can't duplicate summon monster V

 

[DreamChaser]

per the RAW, I don't see how.
There is no inherent benefit to shadow conjuring a Shadow Mastiff over a Fiendish Dire Boar ... Assuming they were equally good choices for summon monster V, they are equally affected by the diminishment of disbelief from shadow conjuration (ignoring for the moment that shadow conjuration can't duplicate summon monster V

except I believe the poster's initial intent was the summon REAL shadow creatures from the plane of shadow rather than one's created of shadow stuff.

Of course, since Shadow Conjuration is an illusion spell, it cannot actually summon anything real from any plane. So the basic answer would be no.

DC

 

[Cabral]

Right ... but Shadow Conjuration creates an illusion infused with shadowstuff to make it more real ... the question is would it be reasonable that a Shadow creature be more real (say 10% more) than a Fiendish creature "summoned" through this spell? (In effect, the shadow infusement "goes farther" because it's duplicating shadow, rather than flesh.)

(btw, I am the OP )

 

[Odysseus]

Right ... but Shadow Conjuration creates an illusion infused with shadowstuff to make it more real ... the question is would it be reasonable that a Shadow creature be more real (say 10% more) than a Fiendish creature "summoned" through this spell? (In effect, the shadow infusement "goes farther" because it's duplicating shadow, rather than flesh.)

Greater shadow conjuration could duplicate Monster summoning V, and summon a part Illusionary Shadow mastif. I certainly think that because the illusionary part is made up from shadow magic, it should be a lot harder to spot as an illusion than if a fiendish creature was summoned. And unless the attacker recognises its an illusion the summoned monster attacks at full stats. I do think the limit of 1/5th hit points should remain.
So rather than 10% more as cabral suggested. I'd suggest -4 on the will save to recognise the summoned monster.

 

[Cabral]

Hmmm ... now that you mention the Save DC, I'll have to look at the Shadow feats from Forgotten Realms... that might be exactly what I need. Thanks Odysseus