Dragonlance Shadow of the Dragon Queen AMA
- Thread starter MonsterEnvy
- Start date
Something worth noting because it's been discussed in multiple threads at this point: I don't feel like there's actually been a shift in how the different colored robes are organized. While it's true there isn't a mechanical requirement to be an evil alignment to take the "Adept of the Black Robes" feat, the book clearly says you follow Nuitari and he is listed under the Gods of Evil section as being the god of evil magic. That naturally should weed out good or neutral aligned characters from following an evil god. Solinari and Lunitari are described similarly, so personally I think the impression that the feats were some huge departure from the previous presentation is a bit inaccurate.
Edit: Also worth mentioning there isn't a mechanical requirement to be good aligned to take the Squire of Solamnia feat, so there's that too.
Edit: Also worth mentioning there isn't a mechanical requirement to be good aligned to take the Squire of Solamnia feat, so there's that too.
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Yep, the book is vague enough that it can literally be whatever each table wants. YMMV, but skimming through the book I'm pretty impressed with the job WotC did in trying their best to respect the source material while bringing things mechanically up to date with the PHB and not excluding more than they absolutely had to.
dave2008
Legend
I understand what people are concerned about, it is just not something that concerns me. I don't really care to much about the lore from the novels. The game and its lore takes precedence to me.
Yeah, once a setting, any setting, hits the table I consider everything canon tenuous at best. Even settings I really care about, like Middle Earth, are subject to change if it makes for a better game. And when you are talking about something like DL, which is a corporate owned shared world in the first place, demanding fidelity to lore is even less reasonable IMO.
EDITTED for thumbs
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@MonsterEnvy Are there any examples of good or neutral Draconian NPCs in the adventure?
overgeeked
B/X Known World
In my case it’s because I view myself as a visitor. I don’t have a history of Dragonlance fandom. I don’t know the lore. I don’t mind changing things a bit here and there, but I‘d rather make those choices intentionally from a place of knowledge rather than accidentally from ignorance. Plus, I don’t want to step on long-time fans’ toes if they happen to sit at my table. Moving the start of the module to keep the lore intact is trivial. So, better to do that than blunder into a problem.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
I have the opposite opinion but for the same reason. I think playing within the boundaries of the lore often makes for a better game. It’s the lore that defines this place as Dragonlance and it’s the lore that separates it from Dark Sun or Middle Earth. Chuck enough of the lore and the settings become indistinguishable. I like dealing with the adversity and challenge of the setting. That’s what makes a given setting fun. Having no clerics in Dragonlance before a certain point and playing before that point makes for a fun challenge to overcome.
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Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Because it's still part of the world as a whole. The adventure doesn't exist in a white room. It exists as part of the world of Krynn which includes the Goldmoon timeline.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
It is lore from the game. 1e and 3e Krynn drew from the novels for the campaign lore and established the timeline for the gods return as being Goldmoon or possibly others around the same time as Goldmoon. It didn't happen months before, though.
Scribe
Legend
Because a shared history, a shared world, is why Dragonlance is even a 'thing' in the global consciousness of the playerbase.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
This I agree with. Once the DM gets the setting, he can change it to suit his needs. No need to hold to the canon if he doesn't want to.
A minor thing I noticed while playing around with the character creator in D&D Beyond is that they've added a few Krynnish languages. Solamnic, Ergot, Istarian, Kenderspeak, and Abanasinian are some that I've noticed. Small touch, but nice to see.
I'm not sure how you're intended to add the bonus 1st level feat if you don't take one of the backgrounds that awards a feat automatically on the D&D Beyond character creator. It seems like the only way to do it right now is to manually add the feat you want under the Features and Traits section of the character sheet. There's an option to manually add a feat at the bottom of that section. I did toggle on the Dragonlance content option under Sources when I first made the character so either I'm missing something or it's an oversight for now.
I'm not sure how you're intended to add the bonus 1st level feat if you don't take one of the backgrounds that awards a feat automatically on the D&D Beyond character creator. It seems like the only way to do it right now is to manually add the feat you want under the Features and Traits section of the character sheet. There's an option to manually add a feat at the bottom of that section. I did toggle on the Dragonlance content option under Sources when I first made the character so either I'm missing something or it's an oversight for now.
overgeeked
B/X Known World
The PCs should be 2nd level when the first combat encounter of the adventure occurs. The first wave consists of three guards mounted on warhorses. The second wave consists of a half-ogre and four more guards on foot. There are also random battlefield effects, some of which can cause damage (like the volley of arrows), to represent the larger battle.
In the wilderness exploration section, when the PCs are 6th or 7th level, they can explore Bluemaw Cave. They'll fight seven gricks initially. Later, they'll come across a sivak draconian with five baaz draconians. If they get into a fight with the draconians, a grick alpha and two regular gricks join the fight, although they will attack the draconians as well as the PCs.
In the City of Lost Names, there's an occupied mansion. The PCs are expected to be 8th level when they explore it. There are four kapak draconians standing guard outside. Once per hour, a patrol of eight Dragon Army soldiers checks in. Inside, there are a total of four kapak draconians, two bozak draconians, a wasteland dragonnel, fourteen Dragon Army soldiers, a hobgoblin captain, and an aurak draconian.
The final battle is against Kansaldi Fire-Eyes (CR 11) and a Huge-sized young red dragon (CR 10). The PCs are level 10 by this point, but they'll have also just gone through all the encounters in the Flying Citadel and won't have had a chance to rest yet, so they'll hopefully be pretty beat up at this point.
In the wilderness exploration section, when the PCs are 6th or 7th level, they can explore Bluemaw Cave. They'll fight seven gricks initially. Later, they'll come across a sivak draconian with five baaz draconians. If they get into a fight with the draconians, a grick alpha and two regular gricks join the fight, although they will attack the draconians as well as the PCs.
In the City of Lost Names, there's an occupied mansion. The PCs are expected to be 8th level when they explore it. There are four kapak draconians standing guard outside. Once per hour, a patrol of eight Dragon Army soldiers checks in. Inside, there are a total of four kapak draconians, two bozak draconians, a wasteland dragonnel, fourteen Dragon Army soldiers, a hobgoblin captain, and an aurak draconian.
The final battle is against Kansaldi Fire-Eyes (CR 11) and a Huge-sized young red dragon (CR 10). The PCs are level 10 by this point, but they'll have also just gone through all the encounters in the Flying Citadel and won't have had a chance to rest yet, so they'll hopefully be pretty beat up at this point.
Okay. So doing a bit of math...
4 2nd-level PCs.
3 guards, 1/8CR. 3 warhorses, 1/2CR.
Half-ogre, 1CR. 4 guards, 1/8CR.
Deadly encounter.
4 6th- or 7th level PCs.
7 gricks, 2CR.
Deadly encounter.
4 6th-level PCs.
Sivak, 4CR.
5 baaz, 1/2CR.
Grick alpha, 7CR.
2 grick, 2CR.
Hard without the gricks, deadly encounter with the gricks.
4 8th-level PCs.
4 kapak, 3CR.
2 bozak, 2CR.
Wasteland dragonnel, 3CR.
14 dragon army soldiers, 1CR.
Hob captain, 3CR.
Aurak, 6CR.
Deadly encounter.
3 guards, 1/8CR. 3 warhorses, 1/2CR.
Half-ogre, 1CR. 4 guards, 1/8CR.
Deadly encounter.
4 6th- or 7th level PCs.
7 gricks, 2CR.
Deadly encounter.
4 6th-level PCs.
Sivak, 4CR.
5 baaz, 1/2CR.
Grick alpha, 7CR.
2 grick, 2CR.
Hard without the gricks, deadly encounter with the gricks.
4 8th-level PCs.
4 kapak, 3CR.
2 bozak, 2CR.
Wasteland dragonnel, 3CR.
14 dragon army soldiers, 1CR.
Hob captain, 3CR.
Aurak, 6CR.
Deadly encounter.
That looks good to me. If deadly is the baseline for combats that's a good sign.
Teemu
Hero
If there are any I haven’t noticed. The book says that draconians are magical creatures that basically lack free will, being creations of Takhisis who as an evil god wants to rule over mortals.
“They aren’t creatures with their own goals and ambitions. Rather, they are magical manifestations of the Dragon Queen’s thirst for conquest, and they wreak her will with lethal efficacy.”
Very much leaning into the original monstrous vision for draconians rather than the later more nuanced additions.
Demetrios1453
Hero
The free-willed ones weren't around at this point anyway, although if a DM wants to launch that story early, I would have no issues with that...
FitzTheRuke
Legend
I think that's the thing when it comes to "continuity" - in any shared "universe", be it Dragonlance or Marvel Comics, or what have you: Fans generally want a new creation to NOT CONTRADICT IT. We don't need anyone to be slave to continuity; we don't need stories to constantly reference continuity; we just need them to not screw it up.
I think that it's seen as the very basics of respect (for the material and for the audience). If you, as a creator of material, contradict what's come before, you disrespect it, either because you can't be bothered to know the property on any meaningful level, or because you DO know, but you don't CARE.
Sometimes, continuity changes are made by property handlers with great care and consideration. How well that's received is usually based on quality of execution (though in this day and age, there's a click-desperate online factor that will hate it no matter how well done).
Personally, I tend to find that most continuity blunders could easily be avoided with a little imagination. It's not usually necessary to contradict a previous story to tell your current one. So far it looks like they're doing a good job of it here. Indicates that they know and care (and by extension respect) the previous material, but aren't slave to it. Which is the ideal combination.
I think that it's seen as the very basics of respect (for the material and for the audience). If you, as a creator of material, contradict what's come before, you disrespect it, either because you can't be bothered to know the property on any meaningful level, or because you DO know, but you don't CARE.
Sometimes, continuity changes are made by property handlers with great care and consideration. How well that's received is usually based on quality of execution (though in this day and age, there's a click-desperate online factor that will hate it no matter how well done).
Personally, I tend to find that most continuity blunders could easily be avoided with a little imagination. It's not usually necessary to contradict a previous story to tell your current one. So far it looks like they're doing a good job of it here. Indicates that they know and care (and by extension respect) the previous material, but aren't slave to it. Which is the ideal combination.
Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Nor would I. I prefer the draconians that could eventually become the Teyr city-state. Soulless automaton draconians don't interest me, and aren't representative of the novels in any case.
I suspect WotC didn't want them to be PC-playable, and ok to kill without question, so they did a "gnoll job" on them. Not my preference, but easy to fix without messing anything up.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
this looks somewhat promising (and like an encounter set I would build)
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