Thanks friend!
Shadowdark Shadowdark General Thread [+]
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Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
But yeah, if you're using individual tokens/a more tactical movement style with squares instead of the more abstracted movement (close, near, etc.) that Shadowdark is primarily designed for, the light thing can definitely be an issue.
Exploration/crawling turns in SD, while taken by individual characters, are meant to be longer and more abstract and not the same thing as individual moves in combat, so they don't translate well/directly to crawling and having players move their tokens one by one on their turns. The assumption is that the party is moving more organically together, and the individual turns/actions are stuff they're doing WHILE moving. But because the only part of that the player can do on the "game board" that the VTT map resembles is moving their token, the software's obvious user interface conflicts with the assumptions of the game.
A perhaps-useful adaptation if people are using individual tokens in SD might be to let all players have access to move all the party tokens collectively. Or just remind the players "ok, each of you is taking an individual turn during each crawling round, but you all move your tokens together at the same time". Maybe "Ok, new round, everyone move." "Now, what are your actions [go around the table]?"
Exploration/crawling turns in SD, while taken by individual characters, are meant to be longer and more abstract and not the same thing as individual moves in combat, so they don't translate well/directly to crawling and having players move their tokens one by one on their turns. The assumption is that the party is moving more organically together, and the individual turns/actions are stuff they're doing WHILE moving. But because the only part of that the player can do on the "game board" that the VTT map resembles is moving their token, the software's obvious user interface conflicts with the assumptions of the game.
A perhaps-useful adaptation if people are using individual tokens in SD might be to let all players have access to move all the party tokens collectively. Or just remind the players "ok, each of you is taking an individual turn during each crawling round, but you all move your tokens together at the same time". Maybe "Ok, new round, everyone move." "Now, what are your actions [go around the table]?"
To be clear I wasn't implying it was a system issue because the system presents a solution to the VTT imposed problem, regrouping, which is how we handled transitioning from room to room. I agree the VTT issue was only an issue because for our first session I wanted to play as close to RAW as possible before finding where to adjust the dials so to speak for my group. I'm not sure we'll end up where Reynard did with throwing out always on initiative or tracking the time remaining on a torch, but it's definitely something we'll consider as we go to find the right balance for our group. Assuming we run Shadowdark during an in-person gathering that we do every few months, we'll likely make different tweaks to fit that arrangement.
That aside the question I asked isn't solely about VTT related sight issues but rather the overall "attack the light" concept balanced against limited inventory and torches have a timer. For 4 players wanting to be able to carry as much treasure and tools they might need to solve a puzzle, be able to hold a weapon and shield, and of course have enough light to get through a dungeon, they're not going to be able to run 4 torches for safety and will probably have to go with 1. Maybe if I ran with the usual 6 players I game with, a 2nd torch as a backup becomes an option so I was curious if anyone had run the game with like 8 players and they decided to use multiple torches.
Mannahnin
Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
I would say yes, with a larger group where a) you might spread out a little more/split up (but not far) for searching, and b) there are more people to carry treasure in those limited encumbrance slots, absolutely having a second (maybe even third if the group is big enough) torch going is reasonably common. It also gives more defense from monsters and environmental hazards attacking the lights, too. Any group with more than 4 or 5 PCs I'd expect a second torch to be common. At least, until the party starts running low on them...
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Yeah, I really like the vibe and the Dolmenwood setting, but reskinned BD&D with its to-hit tables and saving throw tables just isn't for me at this point. Once it's possible to see some deep dives into the books, I may decide it's worthwhile as a Shadowdark resource, but we're not there yet.
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Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
My group typically tries to have two going at a time, on staggered timetables (again, they've been caught in the dark in combat before). RAW, you're supposed to just have all the torches on a single timer, but that rubs me the wrong way and I just run multiple timers myself.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
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I've only run one game, but the players kept two staggered torches going. I had my tablet on one stand and my phone on another, both running Torchlight timer. They reported that it added to their anxiety, which was music to my ears as a DM.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
You definitely need to have something invisible or hard to spot, like shadows, or a grue, following them, just to give them the payoff they're secretly hoping for when the torches finally do go out.
