Shadowdark Shadowdark General Thread [+]

[Mannahnin]

I seem to be learning, albeit slowly
On another note, I am looking to start an open table campaign with a megadungeon. I want to play with a lot of different people, that delve from a near town or camp, and explore it piece by piece.
Currently, I am thinking about whether I should use Stonehell or the Caverns of Thracia. As I own both, I would prefer to use one of them. I think I really like both, but I am worried to do Thracia justice, storied as it is.

My questions are pretty basic, to be honest.
Does anyone have experience with both?
What's easier to run for a first experience with megadungeons?
What's lighter on prep?
Any pitfalls to look out for?
What's the better choice? Or is there another megadungeon that would be better to use?

I have read both and played in both and read reports of play from both, but not yet run either. So grain of salt there.

Stonehell is best-in-class among megadungeons for lightness of burden on the DM to absorb the material. It keeps the level descriptions and room entries short and light enough that you're not overwhelmed. Other megadungeons (like Ardun Vul, for example) often have a LOT more detail to learn.

Thracia has more complexity. More detailed entries, more complex and interconnected maps, with a lot of the verticality, hidden passages, and variety of ways to navigate through it which Jaquays became famed for.

Easier to run for a first experience, and lighter on prep, both almost certainly go to Stonehell.

Pitfalls:

For Stonehell the main one is that the first couple of levels are under-treasured. Doubling it on level 1, at the very least, will really help with advancement and avoiding player frustration. Especially if you're going to run it with an open table and not always have the same characters there, so xp is being split up even more. Maybe triple the treasure or more for the first couple of levels, in that use-case.

For Thracia, especially if you're using an older printing, print errors and some confusion in the text about where certain secret doors and stairways connect at different points is one of the trickier bits. The scenario also isn't really written/scaled expecting a first level party of 5-6 PCs. Even early encounters can be quite deadly if you're not talking more like 6-8 2nd or 3rd level PCs, or 10-12 1st levelers.

What's the better choice, and is there a better option? Honestly I think these are two of the very best.

Thracia is arguably not a "true" megadungeon the way something like Castle Greyhawk was or Stonehell is. It's "only" four levels, and if you were playing a full old school campaign all the way to "name" levels (9th+) it's not going to provide enough content for that. But that can be a virtue, in terms of being something your group can "finish" in a year or less of play and feel that accomplishment from. And the design is really special.

Overall I think Stonehell is the easiest one for a DM to run and learn on. And that's its own kind of superlative achievement. The scale of the dungeon also truly drives home the sense of a "mega" dungeon. It's one of the only ones in my decades of play that I've actually been concerned during a session about getting lost in.

 

[Xenolith234]

As someone who bought a TON of 3rd Ed Unofficial/3rd party stuff that just collected dust, I never to rarely buy 3rd party material anymore for anything.

Even for 5e, when most official content is lackluster?

 

[Scribe]

Even for 5e, when most official content is lackluster?

The last 5e 3PP I bought was Ryokos, and that was long ago due to the kickstarter stuff.

The last non-SD stuff I bought was...Daggerheart? I think.

 

[zottel]

I have read both and played in both and read reports of play from both, but not yet run either. So grain of salt there.

Stonehell is best-in-class among megadungeons for lightness of burden on the DM to absorb the material. It keeps the level descriptions and room entries short and light enough that you're not overwhelmed. Other megadungeons (like Ardun Vul, for example) often have a LOT more detail to learn.

Thracia has more complexity. More detailed entries, more complex and interconnected maps, with a lot of the verticality, hidden passages, and variety of ways to navigate through it which Jaquays became famed for.

Easier to run for a first experience, and lighter on prep, both almost certainly go to Stonehell.

Pitfalls:

For Stonehell the main one is that the first couple of levels are under-treasured. Doubling it on level 1, at the very least, will really help with advancement and avoiding player frustration. Especially if you're going to run it with an open table and not always have the same characters there, so xp is being split up even more. Maybe triple the treasure or more for the first couple of levels, in that use-case.

For Thracia, especially if you're using an older printing, print errors and some confusion in the text about where certain secret doors and stairways connect at different points is one of the trickier bits. The scenario also isn't really written/scaled expecting a first level party of 5-6 PCs. Even early encounters can be quite deadly if you're not talking more like 6-8 2nd or 3rd level PCs, or 10-12 1st levelers.

What's the better choice, and is there a better option? Honestly I think these are two of the very best.

Thracia is arguably not a "true" megadungeon the way something like Castle Greyhawk was or Stonehell is. It's "only" four levels, and if you were playing a full old school campaign all the way to "name" levels (9th+) it's not going to provide enough content for that. But that can be a virtue, in terms of being something your group can "finish" in a year or less of play and feel that accomplishment from. And the design is really special.

Overall I think Stonehell is the easiest one for a DM to run and learn on. And that's its own kind of superlative achievement. The scale of the dungeon also truly drives home the sense of a "mega" dungeon. It's one of the only ones in my decades of play that I've actually been concerned during a session about getting lost in.

Wow, thanks a ton! That insight really is all I could have hoped for, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day for such a detailed and well-informed response.
I was tending toward Stonehell already, because it is my most recent purchase, after having read tenfootpoles review of it.
If I can ask another question, how much of the book do you think I need to read before starting play?
My plan is to read the whole introduction, and the surface level, and see where the PCs may go from there, and read up on the possible entries to the levels below, just to be safe if the party somehow beelines their way down. Additionally, I will probably read the whole Appendix.
Probably will take some time, with prep and getting the first date set, but I hope to give a brief report about how it goes. Just need to get the ten candles session going that I started on a few weeks ago...