Shadowdark looks so good!

[mach1.9pants]

Can anyone explain to me how spellcasting is worthwhile? With a maybe + 1 or 2 (if you're lucky with 3d6 in order) Vs DC 11, you're basically going to fail fifty percent of the time. The extra bonus you may (once again, if lucky) get as you level up is balanced by DC 15 for your fifth level spell. And one in twenty times you cast a spell you ruin yourself and/or your party. Am I missing something? The spells are suitably low powered but far too unreliable for limited use IMO

 

[JohnF]

Can anyone explain to me how spellcasting is worthwhile?

I can only explain why it's fun.

Shadowdark isn't about resource management. It's about risk management. Along with that, character creation is randomized, not optimized. So, much of the spirit of playing the game is knowing that every dice roll is going to matter, and you might have to live with some tough consequences. Rolling to cast spells (as opposed to allocating the usage of spell slots between rests, etc.) fits within that spirit nicely.

In a game where PCs do not have darkvision, rolling that light spell is now utterly suspenseful, and I find that fun! (Others may not.)

 

[Bill Zebub]

Can anyone explain to me how spellcasting is worthwhile? With a maybe + 1 or 2 (if you're lucky with 3d6 in order) Vs DC 11, you're basically going to fail fifty percent of the time. The extra bonus you may (once again, if lucky) get as you level up is balanced by DC 15 for your fifth level spell. And one in twenty times you cast a spell you ruin yourself and/or your party. Am I missing something? The spells are suitably low powered but far too unreliable for limited use IMO

Do the math. Some days the Wizard sucks, some days the Wizard rocks, and on average they get more spells per day than a D&D wizard.

Or just play it and see for yourself.

Edit: oh, and as for the ability modifier, if you don’t have at least +1 or 2, you choose a different class.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'm still hesitating about buying it.

My go-to system for my OSR needs is Beyond the Wall, and I have been eyeing OSE (advanced) for some time now.

Sure I could mix and match all of them, but since I'm not rolling in cash right now, I wonder which of them would fit my table the best.

Shadowdark is close-ish to 5e, which is always good. Beyond the Wall's playbooks are really awesome and a lot of fun. OSE is maybe a little too old-school, but the adventures are pretty great.

And I'm also waiting for Shadow of the Weird Wizard....

choices, choices

 

[deganawida]

I'm still hesitating about buying it.

My go-to system for my OSR needs is Beyond the Wall, and I have been eyeing OSE (advanced) for some time now.

Sure I could mix and match all of them, but since I'm not rolling in cash right now, I wonder which of them would fit my table the best.

Shadowdark is close-ish to 5e, which is always good. Beyond the Wall's playbooks are really awesome and a lot of fun. OSE is maybe a little too old-school, but the adventures are pretty great.

And I'm also waiting for Shadow of the Weird Wizard....

choices, choices

If it helps, I am approaching it as a toolset. I will steal class design and roll-to-cast from it, add in some DCC, sprinkle some Companion and possibly Master rules, and plop in Karameikos (thanks for the suggestion, @Whizbang Dustyboots!).

 

[kenada]

I can only explain why it's fun.

Shadowdark isn't about resource management. It's about risk management. Along with that, character creation is randomized, not optimized. So, much of the spirit of playing the game is knowing that every dice roll is going to matter, and you might have to live with some tough consequences. Rolling to cast spells (as opposed to allocating the usage of spell slots between rests, etc.) fits within that spirit nicely.

In a game where PCs do not have darkvision, rolling that light spell is now utterly suspenseful, and I find that fun! (Others may not.)

I would add that it also neatly avoids the problem of spells that duplicate what non-magical characters can do but usually better. There’s always a risk of failure, so players have to decide the right approach based on the situation.

 

[Cruentus]

I'm still hesitating about buying it.

My go-to system for my OSR needs is Beyond the Wall, and I have been eyeing OSE (advanced) for some time now.

Sure I could mix and match all of them, but since I'm not rolling in cash right now, I wonder which of them would fit my table the best.

Shadowdark is close-ish to 5e, which is always good. Beyond the Wall's playbooks are really awesome and a lot of fun. OSE is maybe a little too old-school, but the adventures are pretty great.

And I'm also waiting for Shadow of the Weird Wizard....

choices, choices

I use Beyond’s spell system and their playbooks (modified and made a little more generic) in OSE Advanced. We’re playing it now and it’s working well. Happy to discuss in PM.

I have the Shadowdark free rules pdf, and like others have mentioned, this would be a toolbox for me to poke around in and apply as needed to another game. Though I have a friend who wants to run Shadowdark. I think it could be fun for a one shot, not sure about an entire campaign.

 

[Krachek]

I use Beyond’s spell system and their playbooks (modified and made a little more generic) in OSE Advanced. We’re playing it now and it’s working well. Happy to discuss in PM.

I have the Shadowdark free rules pdf, and like others have mentioned, this would be a toolbox for me to poke around in and apply as needed to another game. Though I have a friend who wants to run Shadowdark. I think it could be fun for a one shot, not sure about an entire campaign.

It is my own questions these days, is it enough?

for session with most role play, talking, and social interaction, SD can do quite the job. Ability check are easy, PC are more skilled in some task with their class and background. Even some spells can be used in such session like charm person, detect thought.

overland travelling can be handle the same way.

Some players will be able to add fluff and meat around their PC without that much small ability or other bonus.
A fighter is skilled in combat, weapon, armor. We can consider him as a trained athlete. A background like noble or wanted can add some unexpected skills. For me is quite enough to fill any role play social oriented session.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I use Beyond’s spell system and their playbooks (modified and made a little more generic) in OSE Advanced. We’re playing it now and it’s working well. Happy to discuss in PM.

I have the Shadowdark free rules pdf, and like others have mentioned, this would be a toolbox for me to poke around in and apply as needed to another game. Though I have a friend who wants to run Shadowdark. I think it could be fun for a one shot, not sure about an entire campaign.

My huge hesitation, as always with OSR systems, is the PC's fragility at low-ish level.

My players are not expert gamers nor people with any knowledge of pre-2014 D&D, so notions of Skilled Play, Combat as War and such things are not something they understand. But they do love the simplicity of those systems.

I have a OSR-ish 5e version as a work-in-(not)-progress somewhere on my PC, I should really go back to it and try to make something out of it.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Can anyone explain to me how spellcasting is worthwhile? With a maybe + 1 or 2 (if you're lucky with 3d6 in order) Vs DC 11, you're basically going to fail fifty percent of the time. The extra bonus you may (once again, if lucky) get as you level up is balanced by DC 15 for your fifth level spell. And one in twenty times you cast a spell you ruin yourself and/or your party. Am I missing something? The spells are suitably low powered but far too unreliable for limited use IMO

Don’t forget that scrolls and wands and magic rings etc exist to give the Wizard (and Cleric) a boost.

 

[Krachek]

My huge hesitation, as always with OSR systems, is the PC's fragility at low-ish level.

My players are not expert gamers nor people with any knowledge of pre-2014 D&D, so notions of Skilled Play, Combat as War and such things are not something they understand. But they do love the simplicity of those systems.

I have a OSR-ish 5e version as a work-in-(not)-progress somewhere on my PC, I should really go back to it and try to make something out of it.

I think that room can be made to make the game less lethal!
The game allow a pulp mode:

There are no maximum luck tokens a player can have.
Players start every session with 1d4 luck tokens.
You can use a luck token to turn a hit into a critical hit.
You can use a luck token to take an extra action.
You can use a luck token to force the GM to reroll a roll.

my self I think of adjustments

you can allow average on hit points.
and even presumed dead PC can spend some session away from the game and return with some penalties.

the encounter rules are base around same total level of pc and monsters.
That can be tone down at first level.

 

[JohnF]

My huge hesitation, as always with OSR systems, is the PC's fragility at low-ish level.

A fair concern, even with Shadowdark...

My players are not expert gamers nor people with any knowledge of pre-2014 D&D, so notions of Skilled Play, Combat as War and such things are not something they understand. But they do love the simplicity of those systems.

...but there are more 5e-ish, less OSR-ish safeties in place, like the death timer and stabilizing. There's no B/X "Any defender reduced to 0 hit points or less is dead."

More importantly, there's no XP for beating monsters in a fight, only for getting (and spending!) treasure. That means there's a different strategic mindset embedded in Shadowdark's design. B/X gives XP for "defeating" monsters and getting non-magical treasure. 5e gives XP almost exclusively for "killing, routing, or capturing" monsters. Shadowdark PCs never need to raise a sword to advance a level.

But, of course, they probably will get into physical confrontations, so they need to be ready to survive, but they aren't beholden to stick around until - morale rolls aside - the monsters' last hit points are depleted.

In other words, invest in caltrops!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm still hesitating about buying it.

My go-to system for my OSR needs is Beyond the Wall, and I have been eyeing OSE (advanced) for some time now.

Sure I could mix and match all of them, but since I'm not rolling in cash right now, I wonder which of them would fit my table the best.

Shadowdark is close-ish to 5e, which is always good. Beyond the Wall's playbooks are really awesome and a lot of fun. OSE is maybe a little too old-school, but the adventures are pretty great.

And I'm also waiting for Shadow of the Weird Wizard....

choices, choices

Just grab the two quickstart booklets, which are extremely complete, and roll with those until Shadow of the Weird Wizard is closer. And you can use OSE adventures with all of them.

 

[Andvari]

Right. I’m in. Just did my $59 pledge. The ranger sold me on it.

Side note: This money would have spent on getting into BECMI, had Drivethrurpg offered a PoD option for the five sets. As that was not an option, and my wife and daughters are adamant that they want simplicity, Shadowdark won. Disappointed about BECMI, but not about Shadowdark.

You can get Rules Cyclopedia as a PoD. It covers most anything you need for BECMI. But it's more of a rules reference and doesn't offer the excellent onboarding of Mentzer Basic.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm still hesitating about buying it.

My go-to system for my OSR needs is Beyond the Wall, and I have been eyeing OSE (advanced) for some time now.

Sure I could mix and match all of them, but since I'm not rolling in cash right now, I wonder which of them would fit my table the best.

Shadowdark is close-ish to 5e, which is always good. Beyond the Wall's playbooks are really awesome and a lot of fun. OSE is maybe a little too old-school, but the adventures are pretty great.

And I'm also waiting for Shadow of the Weird Wizard....

choices, choices

I would also recommend checking out Worlds Without Number by Kevin Crawford, since there is a free pdf of the "basic" version. There are additional character options and rules for more heroic (less squishy) characters in the full version.

 

[deganawida]

You can get Rules Cyclopedia as a PoD. It covers most anything you need for BECMI. But it's more of a rules reference and doesn't offer the excellent onboarding of Mentzer Basic.

I bought the PDF of the RC a few months back, since the PoD had some sporty reviews.

That said, when I am referring to BECMI in situations such as these, I am referring less to the rules themselves if B/X and BECMI, and more to the world design ethos which I’ve seen of B/X and early BECMI.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I would also recommend checking out Worlds Without Number by Kevin Crawford, since there is a free pdf of the "basic" version. There are additional character options and rules for more heroic (less squishy) characters in the full version.

I loooooove WWN, but the rules are a little too removed from traditionally D&D (from my players' point of view).

I do agree that in terms of design, WWN is one step ahead from most OSR or even modern D&Ds.

 

[DarkCrisis]

What classes are in the Cursed Scrolls?

 

[Bill Zebub]

What classes are in the Cursed Scrolls?

Let's see...

The first one is themed "Diablerie" and has:

• "Witch": structurally like a Wizard, but with different spells, mishap table, and gets a familiar
• "Warlock": demonically infused fighter
• "Knight of St. Idris": cursed warrior-wizards

Second one is "Red Sands" and has:

• "Desert Rider"
• "Pit Fighter"
• "Ras Godai" (assassins with mystical powers)

Third one is "Midnight Sun" (e.g., vikings) and has:

• "Sea Wolf"
• "Seer" (the sort who makes human sacrifices...)

Bear in mind two things:

1. These classes are explicitly intended to be used in the mini-settings that come in the same zine. They are not meant to be general-purpose classes to add the original list of 4.
2. The designer has said that these classes are no more "official" than anybody else's homebrew.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Let's see...

The first one is themed "Diablerie" and has:

• "Witch": structurally like a Wizard, but with different spells, mishap table, and gets a familiar
• "Warlock": demonically infused fighter
• "Knight of St. Idris": cursed warrior-wizards

Second one is "Red Sands" and has:

• "Desert Rider"
• "Pit Fighter"
• "Ras Godai" (assassins with mystical powers)

Third one is "Midnight Sun" (e.g., vikings) and has:

• "Sea Wolf"
• "Seer" (the sort who makes human sacrifices...)

Bear in mind two things:

1. These classes are explicitly intended to be used in the mini-settings that come in the same zine. They are not meant to be general-purpose classes to add the original list of 4.
2. The designer has said that these classes are no more "official" than anybody else's homebrew.

Yeah I don't like the sound of any of those except maybe the Witch.

Good to know, thanks.