Shadowrun d20???

Here goes. This is trying for the 'feel' of SR, but not necessarily the same mechanics all over.

Start with d20 modern. It's a good base for what we want to do - the generic classes fit SR decently, and are certainly far better than anything else. I'd suggest relaxing the rules for class/cross class skills somehow, but I'm not sure how. Perhaps no limitation on max ranks?

Define wisdom as being force of will, charisma as being force of personality and intelligence as being brains and perceptiveness. All perception skills now use intelligence. Wisdom becomes the magic attribute.

Add some appropriate professions and remove the existing ones. Make the professions vague - "any two skills become permanent class skills, choose one feat and get a wealth bonus of +X" would be just fine. Characters who want lots of cyber, or extra spells, or the like can choose a feat that grants more money/xp to spend on them.

Change action dice - you get one per level, and they refill at the DM's discretion. They each add a single d6 to any roll, and can be used after the roll is made.

Change the damage system. Use the 'damage save' mechanic from unearthed arcana. Armour provides a bonus to the damage save. Weapons provide a flat bonus to the DC. Added damage feats would also provide bonus DC. This is really essential to preserve the 'you could die at any minute' factor inherent in shadowrun.

Use the dynamic defense optional rule. Defense is now defense mods + d20 roll instead of defense mods + 10.

Spells cause damage to the caster just like weapon attacks do, but a will save is needed instead of a fort save to resist said damage. All spells are available to any magician. Each spell selection needs to have some sort of 'cost' though. XP is probably good enough...

Each spell requires a skill roll to successfully cast.

Summoning spirits requires a skill roll, followed by some charsima-based damage resistance roll (maybe we need a new save based on charisma?).

Magically activeness is a first-level only feat.

Initiation is a feat.

For cyber, I think we need to have an essence trait - there's not really any other way of doing it. Additionally, this trait can be used to base spellcasting and adept abilities off of, the same way it works in shadowrun. I'd suggest running the trait off of standard d20 conventions, making it go from 3 to 18, then if we have a need for an 'essence test', we can use the rules for attribute tests.

So - cyber all costs triple it's current essence cost, adept abilities are all triple cost, and spells run from force 3 to force 18. Which incidentally synchs nicely with the fact that we're now using feet instead of meters...

I think we'll stick with the wealth system - it works especially well for SR. We probably need some better mechanics for handing out cash - simply adding a number to wealth for each run is a recipe for ruin.

Hmm - vehicles and the matrix.

Vehicles aren't too difficult to do. We need to create some stuff so you can be a rigger (but that's pretty much just handing out huge skill bonuses to people with a VCR implant).

Matrix again isn't too difficult. We assign some combat stats to the various decks, computer skill bonuses to various programs, and then write out combat stats for your average IC, and skill ratings for the hosts to roll against deckers. To build up a security tally - whenever the host makes a roll, and beats the decker's detection factor (deck and program based), it gets a point of tally, plus an additional one for each 5 points over.

(Actually that gives me a thought... the security tally would be a great mechanic for dungeon dynamics, but you'd need to pick some situations it applies for. You'd choose the noisy skills, and award tally for killing creatures...)

Oh, and as a general rule, I think that every 5 points above a target DC should probably give some advantage - reduced time, better quality, more damage, whatever.
 
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Henry said:
Is CODA the system that the Last Unicorn version of Star Trek used? I know that Decipher used CODA for their Star Trek game and the LOTR game, but I remember looking at the Last unicorn game and disliking the die resolution mechanic.

Nah - LUG's house system was the "ICON" system - not a huge fan here either. CODA is (was?) Decipher's proprietary house system. CODA shares some similarities with ICON, but die resolution is very d20-esque: 2d6 + skill rank and modifiers vs. a Target Number (DC).
 

VorpalBunny said:
Nah - LUG's house system was the "ICON" system - not a huge fan here either. CODA is (was?) Decipher's proprietary house system. CODA shares some similarities with ICON, but die resolution is very d20-esque: 2d6 + skill rank and modifiers vs. a Target Number (DC).


ahhh... could definitely work, then. All I'm really interested in is getting rid of those pesky dice pool mechanics - things like the priority system really make shadowrun stand out to me.
 

Henry said:
Is CODA the system that the Last Unicorn version of Star Trek used?
As an owner of LUGTrek books, I know for a fact they used the Icon System.


Henry said:
I know that Decipher used CODA for their Star Trek game and the LOTR game, but I remember looking at the Last unicorn game and disliking the die resolution mechanic.
Personally, I find the Icon System -- at least for Star Trek RPG -- one of the few d6-based resolution mechanics that I truly like because it is simple and less cumbersome ... as opposed to that other d6-based rules system.
 

Fundamental problems I have with a Shadowrun convert to D20 is
1) There where no levels; adding D20 levels somehow simply seems to polulate the game consepts. Also in SR runners start out quite hard, are D20 runners genna start at level 4 or 5? If not there are going to get splatte by any of the stadard SR villians.

2) SR magic to my mind would not translate well. This is related to the levels issue, but also the fact that a caster can keep lobbing off spells with no limits (bar drain) this has serious implications for game balence; simply putting a limit on the number of spells that can be cast removes the point of converting SR in my opinion.

3) D20 presumes a certain amount of game balence between races at start, SR Trolls at start are so much harder than say an Elf. SR has ways of balencing this (the ABC system), how would D20 cope. I dont belive ECL alone would get the job done in a way that works for the 'SR feel'

Theres a number of other problems as well- the Matrix, Astral, how to handle Magic items (since SR has few), the fact SR is not about Hack and Slash.........seems Shadowrun might almost not be worth the trouble of converting it.

Hum..... I wonder if SAGA could handle SR better????
 

Ogrebear said:
Fundamental problems I have with a Shadowrun convert to D20 is
1) There where no levels; adding D20 levels somehow simply seems to polulate the game consepts. Also in SR runners start out quite hard, are D20 runners genna start at level 4 or 5? If not there are going to get splatte by any of the stadard SR villians.

2) SR magic to my mind would not translate well. This is related to the levels issue, but also the fact that a caster can keep lobbing off spells with no limits (bar drain) this has serious implications for game balence; simply putting a limit on the number of spells that can be cast removes the point of converting SR in my opinion.

3) D20 presumes a certain amount of game balence between races at start, SR Trolls at start are so much harder than say an Elf. SR has ways of balencing this (the ABC system), how would D20 cope. I dont belive ECL alone would get the job done in a way that works for the 'SR feel'

Theres a number of other problems as well- the Matrix, Astral, how to handle Magic items (since SR has few), the fact SR is not about Hack and Slash.........seems Shadowrun might almost not be worth the trouble of converting it.

Hum..... I wonder if SAGA could handle SR better????

1) This is a change, but a change you can handle. It is true that standard Shadowrunners simply aren`t first level characters. Each edition made the entry level a bit higher (well, actually, I can only judge from second to third edtion). If you start with 1.000.000 Nuyen, you aren`t a 1st level Character.
And you get the oppertunity to start a lowpowered campaign, maybe a gang campaign, that is not possibly without tweaking the prioritity or point-system in Shadowrun.

2) The Shadowrun Magic system is a neat idea, but it is highly unbalanced. Most sensible wizards know how to cast spells without ever taking any kind of drain. (If they roll extraordinarily bad, they still have some karmadice to burn). But if the magic user woold take drain from every spell, they couldn`t cast more than three per day. (Which would cause at least a medium wound, and a +2 to all DCs is deadly in Shadowrun).
The basic concept of drain can be adapted to Shadowrun. (As I said, my group did it - there might be still some need for tweaking to balance it a bit to one or the other side, but so far, no trouble with it).

3)
ECLs are the way to go. And this ties in perfectly with point 1.
We made single HD racial classes for our D20 Shadowrun. Maybe it is not perfectly balanced, but I think it works quite well.

-
Shadowrun is not Hack & Slash? It is as Hack & Slash as you can get with a focus on guns.
Shadowrun doesn`t allow for more role-playing than D&D/D20 Modern. Maybe Shadowrun seems a bit more tactically, but maybe not: D20 Modern has rules for tripping, grappling, bullrushing, burst fire, autofire. Shadowrun has rules for burst fire and autofire. No special options in melee. (Not counting additional sourcebooks like the Arsenal, which contains melee maneuvers and styles.
Still, some aspects of the Shadowrun rules - especially a higher lethality (Snipers are deadly) enforce a much more tactically orientated game play. Still, this is possible in D20 Modern (and with the increased lethality thanks to Massive Damage Threshold, it might even be as neccessary as in SR)

Finally, I must admit, I would prefer a non-D20 version of Shadowrun - if it would work as well as D20. I like the Shadowrun flavour, and there are some aspects you simply cannot translate to D20, not without throwing most of the D20 concepts away..

Mustrum Ridcully
 
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Ogrebear said:
Fundamental problems I have with a Shadowrun convert to D20 is
1) There where no levels; adding D20 levels somehow simply seems to polulate the game consepts. Also in SR runners start out quite hard, are D20 runners genna start at level 4 or 5? If not there are going to get splatte by any of the stadard SR villians.
Sure shadowrun had levels, they were called karma. Every 10 karma pool got you an extra karma pool die, this is effectively a level. Although you could spent karma sooner. A good compromise would be that you wouldn't have to spend all your skill points right away, but you would have to before you gained another level.

Starting level could easily be level 4-6, Darksun did it, every character started at 3rd level. I believe that Dragonstar also advices this in their campaign...

Ogrebear said:
2) SR magic to my mind would not translate well. This is related to the levels issue, but also the fact that a caster can keep lobbing off spells with no limits (bar drain) this has serious implications for game balence; simply putting a limit on the number of spells that can be cast removes the point of converting SR in my opinion.
Have you seen Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook? It involves powers that do non-lethal damage when cast. This could easily adepted to spells.

Ogrebear said:
3) D20 presumes a certain amount of game balence between races at start, SR Trolls at start are so much harder than say an Elf. SR has ways of balencing this (the ABC system), how would D20 cope. I dont belive ECL alone would get the job done in a way that works for the 'SR feel'
SR also has a certain balance, but the extremes of the variables are far greater than in D&D. You could have an ultra powerfull mage that could level a city with his hellball, but couldn't wield an axe if his life depended on it. In D&D the wizards gains a bab, so even if he doesn't train he'll eventually get better in using an axe even if he never used one or trained with one.

Effectively combining ECL with staring levels. Humans get 5 levels to distribute, dwarves/orcs 4 levels, elves/trolls 3.

Ogrebear said:
Theres a number of other problems as well- the Matrix, Astral, how to handle Magic items (since SR has few), the fact SR is not about Hack and Slash.........seems Shadowrun might almost not be worth the trouble of converting it.
Matrix, kind of depends on what you want, one of the problems with the SR matrix was that it was a sub game, mostly only interesting for the decker. You could simulate the SR system easily, a greater challenge would be to create a quiker/abstracter system that would still retain the mystery of the Matrix.

Astral is easy, use the Ethereal, maybe change a couple of it's properties, but this is really the easiest thing to convert.

Magic Items, simple, don't use them, and make up appropriate items that incorporate into the new magic system.

Not making SRD20 hack&Slash is also easy, instead of giving xp when monsters are defeated, give xp when objectives are met.

The removal of the buckets of dice is motivation enough for me ;-) Also the fact that my players would already have most of the game mechanics down is also a big plus.
 

Ranger REG said:
As an owner of LUGTrek books, I know for a fact they used the Icon System.

Personally, I find the Icon System -- at least for Star Trek RPG -- one of the few d6-based resolution mechanics that I truly like because it is simple and less cumbersome ... as opposed to that other d6-based rules system.

Ah, LUGTrek. Truly a great era in Star Trek RPGs. I miss those days so much...

I ran a ST:TNG era campaign back then with a group of Irish neighbors in Astoria Queens. It was a lot of fun, but a bit disconcerting when the Vulcan sounded more like Miles O'Brien. :)
 

What about doing Shadowrun as something along the lines of Mutants and Masterminds? The core MnM system would require some changes, but it seems to me that's about the closest to the Shadowrun system we have.
 

Axegrrl said:
After various discussions, I've come to the realization that what I really want is Shadowrun d20. Does anyone know if anyone is working on such a product or something similar?

If anyone's tried running a combination of games to simulate Shadowrun d20, I'd love to hear which games you used and how it worked out!

Combine OGL Cybernet with Urban Arcana; and you are very close to Shadowrun.
 

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