Shield master on twitter

[Oofta]

I would like a feat like this:

Shield Maestro
- When you attack with a shield, you can add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll. A shield is considered an improvised weapon doing 1d4 damage.
- When you are wielding a shield and take the attack action, you can use a bonus action to attack with your shield or to shove an opponent.
- While wielding a shield, if you are subjected to an effect that allows a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you can add your shield's AC bonus to your saving throw.

Would you consider a shield viable for two weapon fighting? If you hit with a shield do you still get your AC bonus?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see some love for the sword-and-board crowd but I also don't want to see feats that replace older feats that are flat out better.

As far as DPR, I can only speak for myself. I took protection fighting style because I can give disadvantage if someone attacks an ally, my build doesn't have to be all about DPR. However, as it stands in my experience the feat isn't very useful in my experience (YMMV). Having the flexibility to shove or knock prone before or after the attack is what made the feat work IMHO. The other riders have minimal impact.

So I'm left with a feat that doesn't buy me much (again, YMMV I just don't see it) and nothing "iconic" for the sword-and-board fighting types like the other fighting styles. Oh well.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Meh, they're just a name. The clunkiness is coming from trying to make them piggy-back on other actions, which itself is caused by the laughable goal of trying to make people not want to have a bonus action by making them not always available.

If they'd just left them as they were in the previous edition (minor actions) and balanced accordingly, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Yes, that's the clunkiness. Making them available every turn for some classes but not others, some weapon types, but not others strongly incentivizes some ways of playing over others. On top of that, taking some of the weaker options and adding unnecessary qualifiers. It's a mess.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Okay. I declare an Attack action. The use my Bonus Action. Then execute my attacks.

 

[5ekyu]

Okay. I declare an Attack action. The use my Bonus Action. Then execute my attacks.

Not a bad house rule for some... But the book feat doesn't say you get the bonus action on declaring, does it?

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Not a bad house rule for some... But the book feat doesn't say you get the bonus action on declaring, does it?

If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feel of you with your shield.

It says nothing about actually attacking, just taking the Action. There's even further nuance when you look at when Bonus actions can be taken and how Attacks can be split between moves, etc.

 

[Oofta]

Not a bad house rule for some... But the book feat doesn't say you get the bonus action on declaring, does it?

From DndBeyond

You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.

The Shield Master feat

If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield.

To me, the feat does not specify timing, that would require "After you take complete the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action..." or something similar.

JC's ruling is different.

 

[jaelis]

Would you consider a shield viable for two weapon fighting? If you hit with a shield do you still get your AC bonus?

No to the first (it is not a "weapon") but yes to the second, when you use it as an improvised weapon.

 

[Dausuul]

To me, the feat does not specify timing, that would require "After you take complete the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action..." or something similar.

So, you are essentially arguing that the bonus action can be taken, not before or after, but during the regular action?

...You know, now I think about it, that does seem to solve the problem. You start the Attack action; as soon as you do, a bonus action drops into your lap; you use the bonus action; and then you complete the Attack action. You aren't getting your bonus action before you take the Attack action, so no time-traveling is involved, but you do get to shove before making any actual attacks, which is the point of the exercise.

And it doesn't even require a house rule, just a broader interpretation of the possible meanings of the word "timing."

 

[jaelis]

So, you are essentially arguing that the bonus action can be taken, not before or after, but during the regular action?

...You know, now I think about it, that does seem to solve the problem. You start the Attack action; as soon as you do, a bonus action drops into your lap; you use the bonus action; and then you complete the Attack action. You aren't getting your bonus action before you take the Attack action, so no time-traveling is involved, but you do get to shove before making any actual attacks, which is the point of the exercise.

And it doesn't even require a house rule, just a broader interpretation of the possible meanings of the word "timing."

It implies that you can generally interrupt your attacks with a bonus action. I don't know of any trouble that would cause but it is probably worth thinking about. Could you interrupt with another full action (ie when using haste or action surge?)

I took this as the rationale for JC's original interpretation. My impression is that he reversed it because it seemed complicated, not because of any mechanical problem.

 

[Oofta]

So, you are essentially arguing that the bonus action can be taken, not before or after, but during the regular action?

...You know, now I think about it, that does seem to solve the problem. You start the Attack action; as soon as you do, a bonus action drops into your lap; you use the bonus action; and then you complete the Attack action. You aren't getting your bonus action before you take the Attack action, so no time-traveling is involved, but you do get to shove before making any actual attacks, which is the point of the exercise.

And it doesn't even require a house rule, just a broader interpretation of the possible meanings of the word "timing."

Right. The timing is not specified, it's pretty well established you can interrupt actions with movement and vice versa.

At the very least you could start the attack action / make a single attack / take your bonus action / take subsequent attacks.

The way I interpret it is that on any turn you take the attack action you can also take the bonus action. Before or after it doesn't matter as long as you are taking the attack action. Not really much different than casting a bonus spell and casting a cantrip.

That's how I plan on ruling when I DM anyway. Timing is not specified therefore it doesn't matter.