D&D 5E Shield Mastery Feat

[Mistwell]

What does this have to do with this topic even? Who ever denied or questioned that you could double shove with the feat? You can also grapple and shove with the feat by the way...which is better than a double shove most of the time.

 

[FrogReaver]

If you choose to shove a creature as part of on of your attack action and also choose to shove using the Shieldmaster feat which comes first... the bonus shove or the shove attack? Answer - "It doesn't matter..."

Here are all of the relevant rule breakdowns and I don't care how old this thread is because this hadn't been done fully yet.

ShieldMaster Feat:
You use shields not just for protection but also for
offense. You gain the following benefits while you are
wielding a shield:
• If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use
a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet
of you with your shield.

PHB189 Bonus Actions: "You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action’s timing is specified."

PHB192 Actions in Combat: "The most common action to take in combat is the "Attack action", whether you are swinging a sword, firing an arrow from a bow, or brawling with your fists. With this action;
"you make one melee or ranged attack. See the "Making an Attack" section for rules that govern attacks."

PHB194 Making an Attack: "If there's ever any question whether something you're doing counts as an attack, the rule is simple: if you're making an attack roll, you're making an attack."

PHB195 Melee Attacks - Shoving a creature: Using the attack action you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the attack option this attack replaces one of them."

Since a shove requires an attack role it can by itself initiate the "attack action" and according to these these rules it can also occur anywhere in the sequence.

Where are the explicit rules for resolving a shove attack that show it does not require an attack role.

 

[Sean Culligan]

Normally you wouldn't. You would accept the first one that works. However a shove can result in a knockback or a prone so there could be other reasons to keep shoving. You may want to keep shoving to a cliff edge for example.

I never said a shove doesn't use an attack role. In fact I said the opposite.
"Since a shove requires an attack role..."

 

[Sean Culligan]

What does this have to do with this topic even? Who ever denied or questioned that you could double shove with the feat? You can also grapple and shove with the feat by the way...which is better than a double shove most of the time.

I posed that question as a way to highlight the fact that since it is the same either way then the Shieldmaster shove feat can occur at any point in the attack sequence. I then broke it down by listing all of the relevant rules that support this.

 

[Mistwell]

I posed that question as a way to highlight the fact that since it is the same either way then the Shieldmaster shove feat can occur at any point in the attack sequence. I then broke it down by listing all of the relevant rules that support this.

But you didn't prove that. The non-shield-mastery shove must come before the shield-mastery shove. Because it lists an order of events, and the attack action shove must first be used prior to the bonus action shove. And it's subject to official clarification now, so we know this. Believe me, I wish it were not so. But...it is.

 

[MechaPilot]

I believe some people are thinking about this too hard. The bash becomes part of your attack sequence, much like an extra attack. You can do it before or after the actual main attack, but if you do the bash first, your committed to attacking.

That's also how I see it and how I've allowed it to be used at the table.

I'll even go so far as to say it might even be the intent. Shield bash to prone and then you get advantage on your melee attacks against that foe for the rest of the round? Yes please. I had a player who ran a paladin character who did that as his favorite tactic (he had a really crappy Charisma score, so he used most of his slots on smites, and he tried to engineer crits as often as possible to make the most of his slots).

 

[Sean Culligan]

But you didn't prove that. The non-shield-mastery shove must come before the shield-mastery shove. Because it lists an order of events, and the attack action shove must first be used prior to the bonus action shove. And it's subject to official clarification now, so we know this. Believe me, I wish it were not so. But...it is.

I based what I had on logic and the rules as written. I didn't consider either game balance or consistency which is what I suspect the ruling was based on. I can live with it either way.

 

[FrogReaver]

I based what I had on logic and the rules as written. I didn't consider either game balance or consistency which is what I suspect the ruling was based on. I can live with it either way.

There was a great explanation of the current ruling by the guy who made that ruling that explains the ruling actually is logically reading the rule as written.

 

[Sean Culligan]

But you didn't prove that. The non-shield-mastery shove must come before the shield-mastery shove. Because it lists an order of events, and the attack action shove must first be used prior to the bonus action shove. And it's subject to official clarification now, so we know this. Believe me, I wish it were not so. But...it is.

If the "Attack action" must come first in the order then by that logic it would also mean that the bonus action would have to be last no matter how many attacks are allowed as part of attack action. I am curious how this explanation on the ruling goes. It sounds pretty inflexible.

 

[clearstream]

If the "Attack action" must come first in the order then by that logic it would also mean that the bonus action would have to be last no matter how many attacks are allowed as part of attack action. I am curious how this explanation on the ruling goes. It sounds pretty inflexible.

The Sage Advice focused on the conditional: seeing as the Shield Master bonus action is conditioned upon an Attack action, that has to come first. Until said Attack action happens, there is no Shield Master bonus action to use.