Shield spell items

[dcollins]

Why can't a player make a new magic item? Wizards can make new spell can't they? how come only NPCs get to make new things. That just doesn't make sense.

Because it's not an option to given them in the rules, is why. The argument isn't even that NPCs can invent new items, either.

By the core rules, "new items" are developed by the DM in the exact same house-ruled category as new monsters, new feats, new skills, new domains, etc.

I invite you to read the above-linked article if it's still unclear.

 

[SamuraiY]

if no one can create new magic items, then how did the items in the dmg etc come into existence. Neither your arguments nor the article's make sense to me. Note that the rules for creating new spells are also in the dmg, but players can do that. Also note that the players handbook tells you (players) to refer to the dmg for additional rules very often.

 

[dcollins]

if no one can create new magic items, then how did the items in the dmg etc come into existence.

And if this shield item is so useful and so cheap and anyone can craft it, how come no one else was ever clever enough to make it before you? That makes even less sense. In short, new items come into existence in all the same campaign-specific backstory ways as feats, skills, prestige classes, monsters, domains, etc.

Just make a wand and no one can question you on it. If you're looking for the same basic utility but a lot cheaper, then the DM obviously shouldn't allow it.

 

[SamuraiY]

I am not looking for a cheaper version of a wand. I am looking for an item that can cast the shield spell based on times per day rather than charges. In my mind this would be a slightly higher price or about the same price.

Feats came into being because people decide to study the two weapon fighting style, etc. They are not just there. Someone came up with the idea, worked at it until he could do it, and then other people learned it too. I don't think that people are just born with a talent for the longsword ala weapon focus. They study the use of that weapon until they're really good at it.

 

[dcollins]

I am not looking for a cheaper version of a wand. I am looking for an item that can cast the shield spell based on times per day rather than charges. In my mind this would be a slightly higher price or about the same price.

You're looking for an item that casts shield, in just as many combats as you usually have per day, and it never runs out, but you think it should cost about as much as a wand. <Rolls eyes.> I might guess that you expect it to be triggerable by any character class, and not need any feat other than "craft wondrous item" to do the work, as well.

I would recommend that you save everyone in your gaming group the hassle, and just play with the rules as written.

 

[Hannibal Barca]

The problem is the shield spell is too strong as written for its level. If it was say, 2nd level, the price wouldn't be such an issue. It might be a good indicator a spell is too strong if a use activated item producing the spell is too cheap. I've never been comfortable arbitrarily jacking creation costs up on specific items because an item is "too good", ala the ring of invisibility. Maybe the duration should be 1 or 2 rounds per level. That would make it still useful for mages, but less exploitable in items as they would require higher caster levels to be effective.

 

[Darklone]

"I wanna build an item with permanent Cure Light Wounds!"

 

[Firzair]

"I wanna build an item with permanent Cure Light Wounds!"

Sorry, but you cannot create a permanent effect from an instantanous spell. Best you could do by the (silly) DMG rules is create a command word activated item that lets you cast the spell once per round (I said the rules are silly) for the same cost as an item that lets you cast the spell only 5 times per day.

And just to return to the topic, IMC I have defined rules for item creation, so the players know what they can create. Items that can cast spell X a number of times per day follow simple rules for creation, so this shouldn't be a problem (even with the somewhat silly rules from the DMG).
Due to the personal range of the spell I would require it to be a spell trigger item (I allow wands with X uses/day), so you could create a wand of shield useable 3 times per day for the standard cost of spell level times caster level times uses/day times 400 gp (that's what one use costs by the DMG table) for a total of 1200gp with caster level 1.

Greetings
Firzair

 

[Darklone]

Firzair: I know that. I was referring to ancient debates about that

 

[Staffan]

The problem is the shield spell is too strong as written for its level. If it was say, 2nd level, the price wouldn't be such an issue. It might be a good indicator a spell is too strong if a use activated item producing the spell is too cheap. I've never been comfortable arbitrarily jacking creation costs up on specific items because an item is "too good", ala the ring of invisibility. Maybe the duration should be 1 or 2 rounds per level. That would make it still useful for mages, but less exploitable in items as they would require higher caster levels to be effective.

It's not so much that it's too strong for its level (though it might be), it's that certain balancing factors on spells don't count for much when you put the spell in an item. For example, shield is balanced with mage armor - shield gives a larger bonus, but it will only last for one fight whereas mage armor will last for most of the day (or at least the relevant part of it). The wizard will then have to decide if he wants to be really protected in one fight or if he wants slightly less protection all day long.

When you put things in magic items that can be activated X times per day - or even worse, any number of times - duration doesn't matter as much as with spells you actually have to cast. The same applies to a lesser degree to a sorcerer's spells - that's why Monte Cook's variant sorcerer has a different spell list where many duration-balanced spells got a level boost (like shield and invisibility).