D&D 5E Shields and Somatic Components: Will you play it "as is?"

[AmpsterMan]

It seems I may have to forgo my shield on my bard and instead grasp my longsword with two hands. This is going to make me especially squishy ;_;

 

[jadrax]

TBH, (and this is totally non RAW), I have always used the rule of thumb that 'S' means you have to be capable of pointing to your target.

So if your holding something pointy, staff, sword, wand, banjo, that's fine.

If on the other hand you hands are tied behind your back or you are carrying a piano down a staircase*, then you can't cast an 'S' spell without getting your hands free or dropping the piano again.




*It could happen.

 

[Kalshane]

TBH, (and this is totally non RAW), I have always used the rule of thumb that 'S' means you have to be capable of pointing to your target.

So if your holding something pointy, staff, sword, wand, banjo, that's fine.

If on the other hand you hands are tied behind your back or you are carrying a piano down a staircase*, then you can't cast an 'S' spell without getting your hands free or dropping the piano again.




*It could happen.

That's a pretty cool compromise, actually. I like that a lot. And allows for the cool image of the fighter/mage sweeping his sword towards his opponents and flames or whatever leaping forth towards them.

 

[aramis erak]

During the play test, I had a big issue with the (ever-changing) way foci were being presented, because everyone could use them one-handed, except the bard. Well, the bard *could*, but it was silly (you didn't play your lute to get the benefit, you just held it out and shook it at the opponent).

When released, the game had made changes, both with what the focus did, and that it was essentially interchangeable with a material components pouch. Despite their training in musical instruments, I think that many bards will naturally take the pouch instead because conceptually it only requires one hand.

I've not seen enough bards in lay to have a clear sense of this. So, problem solved, I guess, but it still doesn't feel fully satisfactory.

with good left-hand technique, a lutist can use hammer-technique to play 1 handed, provided the lute is on a strap or in a lap. So it's not that silly at all.

(It isn't all that loud, either, but between hammer-on, and pull-off note sounding, it's possible to play reasonably nicely, if softly, one-handed. Plus, a few people I know can pinky strum. Remember: the guitar is a type of lute - and almost all the techniques not involving electricity can be pulled off with all the others.)

 

[Thaumaturge]

The guy playing a bard in one of my campaigns brought this up. We came up with a "parrying tamborine". He holds it in his off-hand, can use it as a focus, and can use it to parry blows, which confers a +2 to AC. His hands are both full, so he can't really manipulate objects or anything without sheathing/dropping his sword or tamborine.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Kobold Stew]

with good left-hand technique, a lutist can use hammer-technique to play 1 handed, provided the lute is on a strap or in a lap. So it's not that silly at all.

Ask a thousand people to imagine "guitar playing" (or "lute playing"), and how many of them call this technique to their minds as an initial image? An insignificant number, if any.

Yes, there are techniques to do this (for example, this awesome dude) but it is not a natural technique, nor one that has ever been part of a core musical training, ever, so far as I am aware.

If you genuinely believe this is what the PHB expects every player of a bard to instantly imagine, ten the description in the text is, I suggest, inadequate.

 

[jadrax]

with good left-hand technique, a lutist can use hammer-technique to play 1 handed, provided the lute is on a strap or in a lap. So it's not that silly at all.

You know, I had a lutist performing at my place of work two weeks ago and I foolishly failed to ask him *any* questions about how he would go about fighting and spell-casting. Oh the opportunities one misses...

 

[aramis erak]

Ask a thousand people to imagine "guitar playing" (or "lute playing"), and how many of them call this technique to their minds as an initial image? An insignificant number, if any.

Yes, there are techniques to do this (for example, this awesome dude) but it is not a natural technique, nor one that has ever been part of a core musical training, ever, so far as I am aware.

If you genuinely believe this is what the PHB expects every player of a bard to instantly imagine, ten the description in the text is, I suggest, inadequate.

I was a music major for 4 years, and worked in a music shop for a year. The guitar majors all had to learn hammer-on and pull-off, and to be proficient in it. Also, I've seen only one (of 20+ I've seen) basic guitar book that didn't include the basics of hammer technique. Every banjo book I've seen has included it (6 of them), plus one of two Uke books, and 2 of 4 mandolin books. The one Balilaika book I've seen also includes it.

Most string players discover it in the first year of actual practice, whether instructed or not, by accident if not. I know that I figured it out by the end of fourth grade on my violin, because I could hear the notes without bowing. As did most of the class. Oh, and there are a couple violin pieces that use "4th finger pizzacato" as a marked special technique. I've played one, conducted another.

Hammer-on and pull-off are standard basic techniques, normally used in two handed play. If you've ever watched Ingwe Malmstein, Alex Lifeson, Geddy Lee, Pete Townsend or even John Mellencamp - all of them use it as part of two-handed play. Lifeson and Lee even use it occasionally one handed. Lee actually fairly often is one hand on the bass and one on the keyboard during live performances.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Hammer-on and pull-off are standard basic techniques, normally used in two handed play. If you've ever watched Ingwe Malmstein, Alex Lifeson, Geddy Lee, Pete Townsend or even John Mellencamp - all of them use it as part of two-handed play. Lifeson and Lee even use it occasionally one handed. Lee actually fairly often is one hand on the bass and one on the keyboard during live performances.

Emphasis added. I know the technique, and as a (non-professional) mandolinist myself I understand its place among (certain) stringed instruments.

No one is denying the technique exists, but for most musicians one-handed play is a gimmick, and it is not (I suggest) what most players will think of when they imagine a bard.

Perhaps you could clarify what you want us (or just me?) to believe about how a bard's magical focus and shield-wielding are expected to interact in play or in the player's imagination, because I think we are currently talking at cross-purposes.

 

[aramis erak]

Emphasis added. I know the technique, and as a (non-professional) mandolinist myself I understand its place among (certain) stringed instruments.

No one is denying the technique exists, but for most musicians one-handed play is a gimmick, and it is not (I suggest) what most players will think of when they imagine a bard.

Perhaps you could clarify what you want us (or just me?) to believe about how a bard's magical focus and shield-wielding are expected to interact in play or in the player's imagination, because I think we are currently talking at cross-purposes.

If you're of the type who feels the performance is requisite, the bard traditionally is seen as a vocalist who may self-accompany. For that version, the vocal performance is what matters; the instrument is mostly for staying on key, and hammer is just loud enough to work.

If you're the type that feels the ritual act of performing is the requisite, rather than the hearing thereof, then one-hand hammer technique is plenty.

If you're the type that feels the instrument is merely a symbol, the whole discussion of performance is utterly irrelevant, because

And that's before noting that you have a 7 note range on recorder one-handed. Or fife. or bagpipe. Or shawm. (Ok, it's not ideal for pipe, fife, or recorder, because you're hitting the 4th hole with the wrong hand. But it's doable. Not all shawms were 7 finger+thumb) And pre-late-renaissance horns are all one-handed, aside from trumpets (which are straight tubes until the renaissance, and run 4-16' long... and over 6 requires a pole as well, for all but the strongest). One-handed occarinas are rare but not unheard of, and many two handed ones can be played (with limited range) 1 handed.

Or noting that 6 seconds is a bit too short to be doing any serious playing of the instrument in any case. So, if it's supposed to be the music that's the effect, no bard spell should have less than a 10 second casting time (the length of a typical commercial jingle is 10-15 seconds), and 2-3 minutes would make far more sense.

Bottom line: If you're worried enough to gripe about bards casting with an instrument 1 handed during a 6 second combat round, the problem is in your phronema, not the mechanics of the game.