Near death? Odd, I'll have to reread the power, I had thought it said bloodied, which means 2 healing surges, which means... nowhere near death.
Shifter powers, annoying pre-req?
- Thread starter Tellerve
- Start date
Near death? Odd, I'll have to reread the power, I had thought it said bloodied, which means 2 healing surges, which means... nowhere near death.
CapnZapp
Legend
As for myself, I don't think the boost-at-bloodied is a problem.
Most of not scenarios where the ability is made to be absurd can easily be dismissed by the excellent over-arching DMG rule about bags of rats.
Stabbing yourself is pure cheese, and cheese isn't allowed in my games (except doodles). meaning, stab yourself all you want, you won't get the bonuses no matter how much of a bloody mess you're making.
If you as the DM only allow the bonuses to come into effect when the hp loss is caused by enemies the powers are - to me - both appropriate and atmospheric!
Most of not scenarios where the ability is made to be absurd can easily be dismissed by the excellent over-arching DMG rule about bags of rats.
Stabbing yourself is pure cheese, and cheese isn't allowed in my games (except doodles). meaning, stab yourself all you want, you won't get the bonuses no matter how much of a bloody mess you're making.
If you as the DM only allow the bonuses to come into effect when the hp loss is caused by enemies the powers are - to me - both appropriate and atmospheric!
Terraism
Explorer
While there are some good points regarding appropriate themes for someone who can become more bestial when they're injured, I think this is, more accurately, a racial feature that's sacrificed on the altar of balance. Which isn't a bad thing, really - being able to shift at the start of a fight would be quite a bit more potent.
In practice, I think I'd rule that they can shift out of combat, bloodied or not, but that it takes a minute or two to psych themselves up - that while they've got some control, it's primarily an unconscious reaction to being hurt. It means that a shifter can get some use out of his racial out of combat, but doesn't overpower it in.
In practice, I think I'd rule that they can shift out of combat, bloodied or not, but that it takes a minute or two to psych themselves up - that while they've got some control, it's primarily an unconscious reaction to being hurt. It means that a shifter can get some use out of his racial out of combat, but doesn't overpower it in.
If you as the DM only allow the bonuses to come into effect when the hp loss is caused by enemies the powers are - to me - both appropriate and atmospheric!
Then you go and start a bar fight or something then don't healing surge yourself after. You can stay bloodied for as long as you like.
BTW there are boots that do this already too. They're even better giving a +4 squares equipment bonus so it'd even stack.
The solution obviously is that these effects only work during encounters. It makes no sense, but then, neither do healing potions suddenly not working because you're out of a resource your character shouldn't even be aware of existing.
Death has nothing to do with number of healing surges. You can have ALL your healing surges and still be dead.
Yes you could put yourself at extreme risk in exchange for a small speed boost that only lasts 5 minutes. Again I have to wonder what game your playing in which this would be likely to come up.
It makes sense to me. It's not something they can consciencely do.
When in the heat of battle after taking so much punishment (and remember HP doesn't respresent only physical damage so stabity stabity stabity doesn't always need to be required) and getting worked up, their inner beast comes out more and their abilities are enchanced. Just think Incredible Hulk.
Party comes up to near impossible cliff to climb and brief discussion about how they can't get past it. Shifter in party says he can climb up there with a robe but one of you is going to have to get him angry. So the party members do what they can to get the shifter angry, yell at him, slap him, kick him in the nuts, insult him. The gamers can have fun and roleply it out or the DM can just jump straight to it and say the Shiter is now bloodied and he can use his shifting power. No dice rolls needed.
After the party gets to the top and takes a rest the shifter cools down and returns to normal and can spend his healing surges to get himself back to max HP.
Works for me mecanically and flavor wise.
When in the heat of battle after taking so much punishment (and remember HP doesn't respresent only physical damage so stabity stabity stabity doesn't always need to be required) and getting worked up, their inner beast comes out more and their abilities are enchanced. Just think Incredible Hulk.
Party comes up to near impossible cliff to climb and brief discussion about how they can't get past it. Shifter in party says he can climb up there with a robe but one of you is going to have to get him angry. So the party members do what they can to get the shifter angry, yell at him, slap him, kick him in the nuts, insult him. The gamers can have fun and roleply it out or the DM can just jump straight to it and say the Shiter is now bloodied and he can use his shifting power. No dice rolls needed.
After the party gets to the top and takes a rest the shifter cools down and returns to normal and can spend his healing surges to get himself back to max HP.
Works for me mecanically and flavor wise.
a) It's not extreme risk. 50% HP is nothing like extreme risk. b) It's not 5 minutes, it's "while bloodied", or in the case of the boots, 1 round... which happens every round you happen to be bloodied. c) It's called Dungeons and Dragons and had you ever actually played it, you'd have known a and b. Hell, had you played pretty much ANY game, you'd know that getting a 33% move boost is a pretty powerful thing in almost ANY system.
Yes, and now your party wonders how much damage an intimidate check will inflict. Lovely. You can't insult someone unconcious, thats too silly even for 4E.
And no, I don't subscribe to the "it's not actual damage" camp since it quite obviously IS a measure of actual damage.
a) How silly of me to think that running around in a state where one good attack will cause you to die without immediate attention is risky
b) You seem to misunderstand the power you are complaining about. The shifter power is an activated ability that's usable while bloodied and which lasts 5 minutes. Then like every other encounter power in the game, it requires 5 minutes of rest to recharge. It's not anything close to always on.
c) Right obviously the fact that I think being at half hp is a bad thing means I don't play the game. And the fact that I actually read the rules and know how the powers work.
Edit: Finally just to throw you a bone (because you do sometimes say things I agree with, even though I think you WAY too obsessed with attacking 4e every chance you get) the boots do work the way you describe and there is some minor potential for silliness there. Not at all related to our discussion of the flavor of the shifter, but I can still at least somewhat agree there.
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CapnZapp
Legend
You know, Reg, I really don't see the problem.
First off can you agree this feature isn't going for some obscure theoretical construction? It's emulating a widely used literary convention.
Besides, if you want to walk around all day at half hit points, then go ahead, feel free.
Your bonuses are amply balanced by the fact a surprising lurker can drop you before you have time to react.
If you feel the gains are worth the risk, you're clearly coming to different conclusions than WotC's design team, which isn't wrong.
Just don't complain if your allies get tired off wasting time healing you up from unconscious...
PS. As a DM I would love it if all my players choose Shifters and used this strategy - finally a way to threaten their lives without using seriously overleveled opponents!
