Shooting Into Combat

[irdeggman]

What about the fact that in melee both combatants are assumed to be moving back and forth and all around, dancing for a better attack? I would think that the Ally doesn't give "cover" to the bad guy, it's only a melee situation that the Precise Shot is designed to affect. I wouldn't double up the penalties for shooting at this bad guy.

pg 150 and 151 of the PHB talk about cover and soft cover and when to apply it.

The Cover Against Ranged Attacks picture on pg 151 also explains when it applies.

 

[frankthedm]

What about the fact that in melee both combatants are assumed to be moving back and forth and all around, dancing for a better attack? I would think that the Ally doesn't give "cover" to the bad guy, it's only a melee situation that the Precise Shot is designed to affect. I wouldn't double up the penalties for shooting at this bad guy.

Hell, since 3.5 does not normally even have a chance to put that arrow into the ally when he provides a foe cover, the -4 is a bargain IMHO. If your ally is so incompetent that he fails to take a 5 foot adjustment so he doesn't provide cover for your foe, I question how well your team can work together. If you foe is intentionally adjusting to interpose the melee foe between him and the archer, then it is time for your team to use the Delay action.

He swings and 5’ steps to the side.
You end your delay and shoot.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Hell, since 3.5 does not normally even have a chance to put that arrow into the ally when he provides a foe cover, the -4 is a bargain IMHO. If your ally is so incompetent that he fails to take a 5 foot adjustment so he doesn't provide cover for your foe, I question how well your team can work together. If you foe is intentionally adjusting to interpose the melee foe between him and the archer, then it is time for your team to use the Delay action.

He swings and 5’ steps to the side.
You end your delay and shoot.

That's a good point Frank. If you co-ordinate your actions you should be able to avoid (or at least minimise) situations where this occurs. Of course it does require co-ordination of actions, something that a lot of groups may struggle with!

Olaf the Stout

 

[frankthedm]

Cover is valuable to both parties. if your allies make sure you have a clear shot at your enemies, your enemies have a clear shot at you.

 

[Legildur]

I see that Frank was thinking along the same lines I was as to the risks of the cover taking a 5ft step - in that archers tend to be squishy compared to their front line counterparts and if they are dishing out some decent damage, the opponent just may decide that the resulting AOO would be worth it to shut the archer down....

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I see that Frank was thinking along the same lines I was as to the risks of the cover taking a 5ft step - in that archers tend to be squishy compared to their front line counterparts and if they are dishing out some decent damage, the opponent just may decide that the resulting AOO would be worth it to shut the archer down....

This may be true most of the time but in my group's party the Archer has almost the best AC and the most HP's (Fighter 5/Sorcerer 1). So far in about 14 sessions he has taken less than 20 points damage in total (it may even be less than 10). I don't think that he'd be too worried about taking the odd hit or two.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Legildur]

I don't think that he'd be too worried about taking the odd hit or two.

Until he gets his bow sundered!

 

[frankthedm]

Until he gets his bow sundered!

That's would matter so much more in a game without Greater magic weapon

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Until he gets his bow sundered!

Good luck in sundering a Weapon of Legacy!

Olaf the Stout

 

[Random Axe]

OK, given that the ally provides a +4 AC cover bonus for the bad guy, and assuming the archer DOESN'T wait for the ally to get the hell out of the way, what happens if the archer misses his ranged attack by only a little? Does that mean the ally gets shot in the back? If the archer has the Precise Shot feat, I can just imagine the objections that would come out of that!