D&D 5E Short/Long Rest in LMoP

[iserith]

Well I had the idea of giving them a short rest in Area #7 and let them level up to 5th, but don't give them full hit point recharge and spell slot recharge. Would that be a fair compromise? And it might only work once in the storage room, they can't go back there every hour and even get a short rest if the BS wants them out. Fire, poison, etc could force them to run.

I wouldn't change the rules mid-game. They knew what the rules were going in. They made decisions based on that. In my view it's taking something away from the players if the rules change to mitigate the downsides of the decisions they made. Let them fall back out of the dungeon, set up camp at risk of wandering monsters, then rest. When they return, the enemies are ready for them.

Once the adventure is done, then it would be fair to change the rules going forward, with the players' buy-in.

 

[Nebulous]

I wouldn't change the rules mid-game. They knew what the rules were going in. They made decisions based on that. In my view it's taking something away from the players if the rules change to mitigate the downsides of the decisions they made. Let them fall back out of the dungeon, set up camp at risk of wandering monsters, then rest. When they return, the enemies are ready for them.

Once the adventure is done, then it would be fair to change the rules going forward, with the players' buy-in.

Eh, they're newbie players and not great at strategy and would have expected a long rest. This would be the first place in the campaign they haven't been able to retreat and fully heal, so I don't want to penalize them too badly. But they DO NEED to learn that you can't rest willy nilly wherever you want. I'm trying to nip that without forcing a TPK to prove my point.

 

[commandercrud]

They'll have to soldier on or attempt fleeing back to safety. Actions have consequences.

 

[Oofta]

In my campaign, they made their bed and now they need to lie in it. Or not. Decisions have consequences and they just have to soldier through. However, you know your group better than I do and I will adjust difficulty of encounters based on the group and preference. The important thing is that nothing is decided until it actually happens. Tweak the encounters and environment to the benefit of the players so that they have fun playing the game.

So sideline some encounters for now, or have some of the bad guys running errands. Minimize random encounters. Make the remaining fights a little easier so that they're difficult but not deadly.

Sleeping in a closet in my game would be really dangerous. If the enemy knows there are intruders they are going to be checking closets and hidden alcoves. Even with the door blocked (how? Why can't it be broken down?) there's going to be a welcoming party when they come out.

On a related note personally I ignore the sleeping in armor penalty. Non-dex fighter types are already punished enough. That and I have no clue how difficult it would be to get a good nights sleep in armor vs sleeping on a stone floor. I don't see how it would make much of a difference. I assume people bathe at some point, but it's always done off screen. That, and good armor is not nearly as restrictive and uncomfortable as people think.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If you're going to fudge things because your players are new and haven't learned all your tactics and ideosycracies yet as a DM... then the place where I think you should fudge is the hill giant and "3 ogres" outside the mine.

Your rules for long rests and leveling up through long rests should not be fudged, because you intend to use those rules throughout your campaign. So if you change those rules now, they mean much less in subsequent games as the group will think you will always be willing to give in and fudge if they get themselves into trouble when needing a rest in the future.

But your formatting that you had three ogres show up to supplement the hill giant outside the mine? That's merely a story point, not a rule. That is one where you can easily change or evolve the story to be nice to your group, without it impacting future adventures.

Yes, you had the three ogres arrive so that the group wouldn't just leave the mine willy-nilly. Well, they haven't done that. At this point they are leaving the mine because they HAVE to leave the mine if they wish to get to any place of safety. So letting them do so in some form or fashion is the best way to go. Did the group see the ogres arrive to help the hill giant before they entered the mine, or is this just something that you said happened in the background while they were inside? If the party doesn't know the ogres are there, then you can make up any excuse as to why one or more of them aren't out front any longer. Maybe they got bored and left the hill giant, or maybe other creatures arrived in the area and the ogres ran off to deal with them and aren't out front anymore.

Say whatever you want, so that if the party does try to go back to camp for a long rest, maybe they only face the hill giant and one ogre, or perhaps just the hill giant itself. Just make up any excuse for not having the additional ogres there to kick the crap out of the party if they try to leave. If you do this, you still aren't making it easy for them to retreat out of the mine because they still have the hill giant, but you also aren't kicking them when they are down for no reason (which you would be doing if you threw the hill giant and three ogres at them.)

The group should realize that resting in the mine is suicide. So let them try to leave, and only face down the one hill giant they didn't take out as they entered so they learn that lesson that enemies you leave behind will still need to be dealt with later. That's my suggestion.

 

[Oofta]

Another suggestion. They try to leave the mine, see the guards and have to figure out how to sneak past or bluff. Ogres are notoriously stupid, play that up. There are a lot of other options as well like a cache of healing potions they just happen to find and so on.

But like others, I wouldn't change the base rules.

 

[Fenris-77]

Yup, sneaking out past the stupid ogres seems like the easiest answer. Clever tricks over brute force will win the day.

 

[iserith]

Eh, they're newbie players and not great at strategy and would have expected a long rest. This would be the first place in the campaign they haven't been able to retreat and fully heal, so I don't want to penalize them too badly. But they DO NEED to learn that you can't rest willy nilly wherever you want. I'm trying to nip that without forcing a TPK to prove my point.

I DM for a LOT of newbies. I cut them no slack. They learn very quickly. I think we DMs underestimate people too much. Set a high bar and they will rise to the occasion in my experience.

I would also suggest that if they're at Wave Echo Cave, provided you didn't cut out a bunch of stuff in the middle, they are past the point of being newbies. They should have a good idea of the risks.

 

[Nebulous]

I DM for a LOT of newbies. I cut them no slack. They learn very quickly. I think we DMs underestimate people too much. Set a high bar and they will rise to the occasion in my experience.

I would also suggest that if they're at Wave Echo Cave, provided you didn't cut out a bunch of stuff in the middle, they are past the point of being newbies. They should have a good idea of the risks.

Yeah, maybe I'm too nice to them sometimes, lol.

 

[Fenris447]

I'm on board the "ogres outside" train. You could also have the players have to figure out a different way to leave the mine, possibly through the original entrance. This makes for a new challenge while still not throwing anything away.