D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Alzrius]

Which is a different problem than saying I am no longer playing Official Dungeons & Dragons because I used Tome of Beasts monsters.

But Tome of Beasts (affiliate link) is a third-party supplement. It's put out by Kobold Press.

 

[Maxperson]

One place you can see this concept in action is BG3. There are a ton of dialogue options where being a certain race or class either gives advantage or just grant auto-success.

Being a drow in the goblin camp is an easy example.

Oh, yep! I didn't put that together, but you're absolutely right about that.

 

[Minigiant]

Thinking about it, it's actually really funny.

All I hear about is how WotC only cares about maximizing profits and monetizing the game. Yet, if we're to believe the posts in this thread, half-elves are FANTASTICALLY popular and by removing half-elves from the game, WotC is stumbling badly and completely misjudging the fandom. That there are untold masses of players out there that will absolutely freak if half-elves aren't included in the game under a separate entry with their own "unique" mechanics.

Or... perhaps WotC actually does have some idea about how popular half-elves actually are, and have some idea about how well received this change will be. Time will tell.

But, still, it would be nice if people would simply speak for themselves and stop trying to claim some position of popularity with no real evidence to back it up.

WOTC's choice to remove half elves has nothing to do with popularity and has everything to do with out of game social issues.

Half elf were removed because they're named half elves.
Half orcs are removed because they're named half orcs.

Like everything and every time before, WOTC did their typical strategy of handing out new free shinies to hide the fact that they made an unpopular move (see the DNDB scandal).

 

[Remathilis]

The books can't give that permission. Only the DM can give permission to use the older books. The 5.5e guidance regarding 5e is for if/when the DM allows it to come into play.

The DM doesn't come into play here any more than banning dragonborn as an option no longer makes the game 2024.

 

[Maxperson]

The DM doesn't come into play here any more than banning dragonborn as an option no longer makes the game 2024.

What is your reasoning that the DM doesn't come into play when he allows or disallows 5e rules in his 5.5e game?

The 5.5e books cannot grant permission to use the older rules. They can only inform that it's possible to do so.

 

[Remathilis]

What is your reasoning that the DM doesn't come into play when he allows or disallows 5e rules in his 5.5e game?

The 5.5e books cannot grant permission to use the older rules. They can only inform that it's possible to do so.

The rules allow you to use your older books. The DM says you cannot in their game. That is no different than a DM saying you can't play a dragonborn or a warlock in their game. It doesn't change the fact you're still playing 2024 D&D. What options the DM decides to ban is immaterial to that.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

What is your reasoning that the DM doesn't come into play when he allows or disallows 5e rules in his 5.5e game?

The 5.5e books cannot grant permission to use the older rules. They can only inform that it's possible to do so.

I feel this is hair-splitting - can't give permission versus informing it's possible.

A DM always decides everything. That's self-evident. In the case of half-elves, but more specifically half-orcs, there was a large assumption about their birth status - I'm pretty sure if you go back, even Tanis in Dragonlance did not come from a loving household.

I'll quote from the new PHB, page 5:
"This is the 2024 version of the fifth edition Player's Handbook. If you've read the 2014, much of this will familiar, since the fundamental rules of the game are the same. But the book contains many new or redesigned elements and the version of things in this book replace versions from older books. Here are highlights: ..."

You can read that however you will choose to, and it seems you'd already made your mind up anyway. To me, that says that, since they're still calling this Fifth Edition, and a revision, that whatever is not SPECIFICALLY overwritten rules-wise still exists. They've always been clear that that is the intent - that essentially they were trying to software-patch something.

Half-elves and half-orcs are still mechanically usable right out of the PHB. The 2014 PHB is still readily available. Half-elves are still in SRD 5.1. I get that people want to clutch at their pearls, and debate what is 2025 RAW, but it's clear to me that half-elves remain every bit 5th Edition RAW in 2025 the same as if this book was merely the PHB 2 like in 4th edition.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I feel this is hair-splitting - can't give permission versus informing it's possible.

A DM always decides everything. That's self-evident. In the case of half-elves, but more specifically half-orcs, there was a large assumption about their birth status - I'm pretty sure if you go back, even Tanis in Dragonlance did not come from a loving household.

I'll quote from the new PHB, page 5:
"This is the 2024 version of the fifth edition Player's Handbook. If you've read the 2014, much of this will familiar, since the fundamental rules of the game are the same. But the book contains many new or redesigned elements and the version of things in this book replace versions from older books. Here are highlights: ..."

You can read that however you will choose to, and it seems you'd already made your mind up anyway. To me, that says that, since they're still calling this Fifth Edition, and a revision, that whatever is not SPECIFICALLY overwritten rules-wise still exists. They've always been clear that that is the intent - that essentially they were trying to software-patch something.

Half-elves and half-orcs are still mechanically usable right out of the PHB. The 2014 PHB is still readily available. Half-elves are still in SRD 5.1. I get that people want to clutch at their pearls, and debate what is 2025 RAW, but it's clear to me that half-elves remain every bit 5th Edition RAW in 2025 the same as if this book was merely the PHB 2 like in 4th edition.

I always thought it actually being the PHB 2 would have been a better choice.

 

[Remathilis]

I always thought it actually being the PHB 2 would have been a better choice.

PHB 2 would not have been able to revise the core mechanics or redesign classes. It could only add new options.

 

[DEFCON 1]

If that's your takeaway from what I have been saying, you have only been reading to respond, not to understand. There's not much point to continuing to discuss this with someone who isn't bothering to read to understand what I am saying. I can get more accurate responses talking to my office walls.

You're the one who said that if there wasn't a mechanic for something then it didn't exist in the game. No half-elf mechanics means there are no half-elves. I understood that statement quite well. If you want to walk back that claim, go right ahead.