D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?

[Micah Sweet]

Well, that's been my argument for why Dark Sun isn't real D&D...

But Dark Sun had its own rules.

 

[Remathilis]

But Dark Sun had its own rules.

It still required the use of the Players Handbook, for what little of it that was used. It SHOULD have been its own game like Gamma World. Instead, it's an edgy college kid who hates his dad but still uses his name on the admission application...

 

[pemerton]

It still required the use of the Players Handbook, for what little of it that was used. It SHOULD have been its own game like Gamma World. Instead, it's an edgy college kid who hates his dad but still uses his name on the admission application...

Dark Sun to me seems to be clearly D&D. It's sword & planet, which is one of the core inspirational genres for D&D.

In this respect Dark Sun seems to me to be completely different from (say) Traveller-esque sci-fi.

 

[Yaarel]

My assertion is that the PHB brings with it elements of setting, and that these setting elements include things like knights, castles, dragons, magic, glaive-guisarmes, etc; and do not include space marines, space ships, computers etc.

I can't tell if you are disagreeing with me or not.

The Players Handbook supplies options for an ambiguously "medievalesque" setting where "magic is real". But its core rules are for any setting, including modern and future settings. Moreover, the gun rules are modern, Eberron models the 1900s, Barrier Peaks has laser guns (which ruleswise would be the Radiant damage type), Icewind Dale also has a space ship, Mad Mage has a spelljammer, and so on. The core rules are intended for, and officially used for, these different kinds of settings. I expect the DMs Guide (which is also part of core) to mention the non medieval aspects in more detail.

@Maxperson seems to be disagreeing, though as I said I don't know how his argument that the PHB does include space marines is meant to fit with his argument that it doesn't include Half-Elves.

@Maxperson seems comfortable with the idea that the core rules are for any kind of setting. However, like you, he seems to view that the Players Handbook implies its own setting.

I think 2014 did, indeed, it made Forgotten Realms the default setting. However, 2024 walks this back and clarifies how any setting is possible, and makes sure the rules are useful for different kinds of settings. The options remain familiar enough, but there are also very many modernism from guns to highrise buildings to blimps, and the DM is responsible for deciding which setting is the one that the adventures are actually happening in.

 

[Yaarel]

But Dark Sun had its own rules.

A 2024 Dark Sun would use the Players Handbook rules. Things like psionic talents and "defiling" technology would be normal-enough backgrounds. The distinctions between the positive material plane and the negative material plane would be "terrain" rules, rather than character rules.

 

[pemerton]

The Players Handbook supplies options for an ambiguously "medievalesque" setting where "magic is real". But its core rules are for any setting, including modern and future settings.

<snip>

I think 2014 did, indeed, it made Forgotten Realms the default setting. However, 2024 walks this back and clarifies how any setting is possible, and makes sure the rules are useful for different kinds of settings. The options remain familiar enough, but there are also very many modernism from guns to highrise buildings to blimps, and the DM is responsible for deciding which setting is the one that the adventures are actually happening in.

I don't think the PHB provides rules for modern and future settings. I don't think the PHB even has rules for credit, does it, let alone credit cards or more sophisticated financial instruments. All the prices are dominated in specie coins.

I think the old d20 Modern used a Wealth skill or score. That rule is not in the PHB.

I can't take seriously that the PHB - with its rules for characters (including most importantly classes that are fighter, barbarian, druid, sorcerer etc), and its equipment lists, and its spells that only operate meaningfully in relatively close combat, and its art - is a set of rules for playing a Traveller-esque RPG.

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson seems comfortable with the idea that the core rules are for any kind of setting. However, like you, he seems to view that the Players Handbook implies its own setting.

I don't know how many times I've said that the PHB is not a setting, but it has been a lot!

The PHB is like a Millennium Falcon boxed lego set. Inside are lego bricks that are themed for the Millennium Falcon(setting), but are not yet the Millennium Falcon. However, you could also take those setting elements and build your own lego creations, even ones that are not Millennium Falcon themed.

The PHB has a decidedly medieval feel to it. That's the set the elements are themed after. I'm just okay with building your own settings, even if they aren't the default theme.

As you mentioned, D&D has been, at least since 1e, inclusive of other genres. There were rules in the 1e DMG for bringing in Gamma World, Boot Hill, and other non-fantasy settings. Those are also D&D, even if not the typical fantasy D&D.

 

[Yaarel]

I don't think the PHB provides rules for modern and future settings.

I use D&D rules for a near-future setting. This is normal for me. The "magic" is advanced technology, and the pop culture actually refers this tech sector as "magic". There are police forces of Paladins, and so on.

Bullets, lasers, vehicles, etcetera all use normal 5e rules.

I don't think the PHB even has rules for credit, does it, let alone credit cards or more sophisticated financial instruments. All the prices are dominated in specie coins.

Credit cards or more specifically debit cards work exactly like "gp", except weigh much less. Loot can be sold online or pawned (or fenced) locally.

I think the old d20 Modern used a Wealth skill or score. That rule is not in the PHB.

I use the History skill for all of the human sciences, including linguistics, psychology, and economics.

I use Nature for the physical sciences.

Arcana is cyber tech.

I can't take seriously that the PHB - with its rules for characters (including most importantly classes that are fighter, barbarian, druid, sorcerer etc), and its equipment lists, and its spells that only operate meaningfully in relatively close combat, and its art - is a set of rules for playing a Traveller-esque RPG.

The 5e classes are specifically "combat styles". Wizards fight more with hi tech, while Barbarians are more super soldiers. And so on.

Telepathy is ubiquitous because of "wetware" brain implants. And "telekinesis" happens via nanobot clouds.

The "species" are natural humans and various transhumans.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

In the section, "Character Species", texts include the following:
"
A player characters species is the set of game traits that an adventurer gains from being one of those life forms.
Members of most species live for about 80 years, with exceptions noted in the text about the species in this chapter. Regardless of life span, members of all species reach physical maturity at about the same age.

Parts of a Species
Creature Type. Every species in this chapter is Humanoid. Playable non-Humanoid species appear in other D&D books. [ @Maxperson ].
Size. Individuals within a species cover a wide range of heights, ans some species include such diversity of size that you can choose whether your character is Small or Medium.

"

Otherwise, the appearance of species seem to depend on the specific setting. For example, the Elf entry mentions "elves have pointed ears and lack facial and body hair", but details like skin color which the Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms obsess over, are absent from core rules. Forgotten Realms Drow Elves generally have gray skin ranging from black to white, with a hint of purple, ranging from blue to red. Tashas has an image of two Elves, one "High" and one "Drow". It took me a moment to realize, the dark blue skin was the High Elf and the pale silver skin was the Drow Elf. When I looked into it, it turns out these color possibilities are canon in the Forgotten Realms.

Generally speaking, players can choose any humanlike bodytype and appearance, and probably doublecheck with the DM if portraying something unusual.

Thanks for the info. Looks like a bunch of bad decisions to me. Dodged a bullet not getting it.

 

[Minigiant]

The PHB is the base assumption for a D&D edition
The SRD is is the legally free rules and most stripped down assumptions.